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March 12, 2004

CORLEONE FAMILY UPDATE....Remember the Medicare actuary who was ordered to shut up about his cost estimate for the administration's Medicare bill? Knight Ridder finally managed to talk to him directly today and he confirmed the whole story:

Richard Foster, the chief actuary at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, said Friday night that he received a handwritten note from [Thomas] Scully, then the centers' administrator, in early June ordering him to ignore information requests from members of Congress who were drafting the drug bill.

....The note was Scully's first threat in writing, Foster said, and came after at least three less formal threats. They "came in different forms," he said. "Sometimes he would make a comment that 'I think I need another chief actuary,' or 'If you want to work for the Ways and Means Committee (which was drafting the bill) I can arrange it.' It was that sort of thing."

Bill Frist's spokesman said, "If an individual's job was threatened and if they were trying to shield information from Congress, that could be an issue of concern."

Ah, yes, an "issue of concern." I suppose it would be at that, wouldn't it?

UPDATE: In comments, dbc points to this AP story that ran last year while all this was happening. Apparently the higher cost estimate wasn't the only reason Scully didn't want Foster's analysis released. It was the reason for the higher estimate:

An earlier analysis [by Foster] suggested that a Republican plan to inject market forces into Medicare could increase premiums for those who stay in traditional programs by as much as 25 percent. If that's still the case, it could help Democrats who argue that the GOP plan is risky for those who want to stay in traditional Medicare, where they can pick any doctor, rather than move to a managed care plan.

...."The administration is resisting the release of it because it's not good news for the Republican House plan," said House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.

No, not good news at all. But we wouldn't want to let the facts get in the way of ideology, would we?

Posted by Kevin Drum at March 12, 2004 08:24 PM | TrackBack


Comments

Wonder if he still has the handwritten note?

Posted by: PaulB at March 12, 2004 08:28 PM | PERMALINK

There doesn't appear to be much "if" left, does there?

But the thing that amazes me is that these so-called conservatives thought that if this monstrosity only cost $395B, then it was fine....

Posted by: howard at March 12, 2004 08:28 PM | PERMALINK

Was Kerry's liars comment well timed or what?

Kerry: "Crooked liars!"
GOP: "Not true!"
Press: "Medicare deception? GOP supported more intelligence cuts than Kerry? GOP congressmen proposed equal cuts?"
GOP: "No comment."

Posted by: doctor man at March 12, 2004 08:32 PM | PERMALINK

Gad, I'm beginning to think that this administration simply enjoys intimidating people for the sheer hell of it.

IOW, they really _are_ stark raving bonkers.

Posted by: David W. at March 12, 2004 08:35 PM | PERMALINK

What is it going to take to throw these crooks out? When is the other side going to stop averting their eyes to the utter corruption of this crew?

Posted by: four legs good at March 12, 2004 08:38 PM | PERMALINK

Gad, I'm beginning to think that this administration simply enjoys intimidating people for the sheer hell of it.

No, they're really doing it for fun and profit. But lest you think there's absolutely no justice in the world, Billy Tauzin, that creep who helped write that garbage piece of legislation, and who is giving up his congressional gig was just diagnosed with intestinal cancer.

He was going to go to work as a lobbyist for the pharmaceutical industry (how convenient, a nice little payoff for the medicare drug bonanza) until democrats cried foul.

I hate to wish anyone ill, but sometimes what goes around comes around. With a vengence.

Posted by: four legs good at March 12, 2004 08:44 PM | PERMALINK

THIS JUST IN ......

BUSH and CO found to be "CROOKS AND LIARS!

We now return you to your previous misery..

Posted by: smalfish at March 12, 2004 08:55 PM | PERMALINK

In the law business, we call this "fraud." A very expensive fraud. Again I ask, when will the Republican Party cut its losses and cut this horrific administration loose? John McCain, where are you?

Posted by: Bassfish at March 12, 2004 08:56 PM | PERMALINK

Issue of concern? Damn, Janet's boob seems to be of greater concern!

Posted by: pichiflay at March 12, 2004 08:58 PM | PERMALINK

From Brad DeLong yesterday

At a Ways and Means Committee hearing last month, HHS Secretary Tommy Thompson all but repudiated Scully's tactics. "I may have been derelict in allowing my administrator, Tom Scully, to have more control over it than I should have. ... And maybe he micromanaged the actuary and the actuary services too much. ... I can assure you that from now (on), the remaining days that I am secretary you will have as much access as you want to anybody or anything in the department. All you have to do is call me."

Note the phrase "the remaining days that I am secretary" Translation: It is nearly time to get off this sinking ship.

Posted by: ___league at March 12, 2004 08:59 PM | PERMALINK

How on earth can anyone claim surprise about this?

This administration LIED to the people of the United States in a matter of war and peace, in order that they might have war.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Full me twice...(long pause)... won't get fooled again".

Posted by: Sovereign Eye at March 12, 2004 08:59 PM | PERMALINK

"Fool me once, shame on you. Full me twice...(long pause)... won't get fooled again".

Since he can be fooled many times, he thinks that we can also be fooled many times.

Posted by: ____league at March 12, 2004 09:04 PM | PERMALINK

Is it just me, or does this "not uniquely comport" to truth. Let's see, O'Neil has called them liars. Tenet has call them liars. Cheneyburton is clearly crooked (even their subsidiaries are crying foul, the GAO is crying foul). Republicans in congress are signing letters asking for an independent inquiry even after Hatch tries to close off debate in the least damaging way. Hastert gets hung out to dry on the 9/11 commition and now says he "doesn't talk to his people" becuase "we werent' getting straight numbers from them". All of this from current or former administration ALLIES - and Kerry should apologize?

Crooked Lying Major League A**holes

Posted by: throCKmortEn at March 12, 2004 09:10 PM | PERMALINK

I ask yet again,

When will the press start representing the truth?Has this story even made it to a theater near you yet?Such inescapeable bullshit and the "mainstream" media wont touch it for the lives of them!What gives???Has the paper of record even gotten a hint of this?would they even report it if they did?

Still so many questions and still never any answers.I HATE THE MEDIA.All they can do is play debate games.When was the last time you saw any investigative stories on the news,other than the local tv looking into peeping toms and how our school lunch programs dont feed our kids well????

I'm so fed up with this stuff it makes me sick.Maybe it is time to get the brochures out for Tahiti.

Posted by: smalfish at March 12, 2004 09:11 PM | PERMALINK

And don't forget this one:

There is no precedent in any modern White House for what is going on in this one: a complete lack of a policy apparatus," DiIulio tells Esquire. "What you've got is everything—and I mean everything—being run by the political arm. It's the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis."

Posted by: ___league at March 12, 2004 09:18 PM | PERMALINK

The hell of it is, half of this story was actually reported BACK IN 26 JUNE 2003, but nothing came of it -

White House won't release Medicare memo by LAURA MECKLER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration's top Medicare accountant has calculated how millions of senior citizens would be affected by bringing private managed care into the program, but the administration won't release the information.

An earlier analysis suggested that a Republican plan to inject market forces into Medicare could increase premiums for those who stay in traditional programs by as much as 25 percent. If that's still the case, it could help Democrats who argue that the GOP plan is risky for those who want to stay in traditional Medicare, where they can pick any doctor, rather than move to a managed care plan.

The administration's Medicare chief threatened to fire his top actuary, Rick Foster, if Foster released his calculations to Capitol Hill Democrats who requested the analysis, officials said.

Medicare chief Tom Scully said in an interview Wednesday that Democrats had no right to request the information from Foster in the first place.

"They don't have the right on the Hill to call up my actuary and demand things," said Scully, chief of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. "These people work for the executive branch, period."

Scully said he would release the analysis "if I feel like it."

Well, now we know WHY Scully was hiding the numbers. Question is: what could / should have been done about it back in June 2003?


Posted by: dbc at March 12, 2004 09:19 PM | PERMALINK

I don't care if it rains or freezes
'Long as I got my Plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
Through my trials and tribulations
And my travels through the nations
With my Plastic Jesus I'll go far

Plastic Jesus, Plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
I'm afraid He'll have to go
His magnets ruin my radio
And if I have a wreck He'll leave a scar

Riding down a thoroughfare
With His nose up in the air
A wreck may be ahead, but He don't mind
Trouble coming He don't see
He just keeps His eye on me
And any other thing that lies behind

Plastic Jesus, Plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
Though the sunshine on His back
Make Him peel, chip and crack
A little patching keeps Him up to par

When I'm in a traffic jam
He don't care if I say "damn"
I can let all my curses roll
Plastic Jesus doesn't hear
'Cause he has a plastic ear
The man who invented plastic saved my soul

Plastic Jesus! Plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
Once His robe was snowy white
Now it isn't quite so bright
Stained by the smoke of my cigar

If I weave around at night
And policemen think I'm tight
They never find my bottle, though they ask
Plastic Jesus shelters me
For His head comes off, you see
He's hollow, and I use Him for a flask

Plastic Jesus! Plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
Ride with me and have a dram
Of the blood of the Lamb
Plastic Jesus is a holy bar

http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/plastic0.htm

Posted by: perpwalk at March 12, 2004 09:46 PM | PERMALINK

doctor man: "Was Kerry's liars comment well timed or what?"

On what day would it NOT have been apropos?

Posted by: Grumpy at March 12, 2004 09:55 PM | PERMALINK

Well the New York Times story was presented in an interesting way online, tacking it on to a story about the confirmation of the new Medicare/Medicaid head. Headline has nary a mention of the Foster debacle.

The bland editorial decision technique really makes my blood boil. Others seem to be picking it up pretty good though.

You gotta love the last paragraph:

Kevin W. Keane, a spokesman for the Department of Health and Human Services, said: "In the heat of the moment, there was some frustration, but we are not interested in rehashing the issue. We are focused on carrying out the Medicare law, to save money for seniors on their prescription drugs."

I'll bet you're not interested in a rehash...

These guys all sound the same on autopilot damage control don't they? Do they install the same upgraded chip in all their heads every week?

Posted by: noodge at March 12, 2004 09:56 PM | PERMALINK

You know, this strikes me as an historic case of fraud.

Our children should be reading about this in history text books. It should follow Bush everywhere he goes -- every open microphone a reporter gets, they should be grilling this guy with questions about this. It is that important -- regardless of your partisan affiliation. This is a blatant, obvious lie to Congress, and by proxy the People, to pass a politically expedient law. To the tune of $100 billion. A normal person would get jail time for lying to investors that way.

So what will come of it? Probably nothing. What is really sad is that GWB and crew have pushed the envelope of lying and cheating so far, that a lot of the nonsense people believe about the 'evil' of politics has become true.

If there is absolutely no punishment for mendacity on this scale, what reason is there for anyone to behave honorably as politician? What meaning does our ability to vote have if our politicians regularly lie to us about everything they do as a matter of course?

If GWB gets reelected, I think it's through for this country. If you vote for him, you've helped that come to pass.

America has a pretty grave decision to make this fall. If we reelect GWB, it would be worse than having reelected Nixon.

Posted by: Timothy Klein at March 12, 2004 10:01 PM | PERMALINK

Somehow I don't believe this will get much press. I predict that by Monday, no major news corporation with nationwide exposure will utter a peep about this story.

It's interesting to consider what would happen if something like this happened in the Clinton administration. My guess is 24/7 news coverage, articles of impeachment passage on the count of "Fraud", and general uproar among the punditocracy.

I just don't know about America any more. It's no longer my country, and I'm seriously considering Canada, Europe, or New Zealand as a new place of residence.

Posted by: Subterranean at March 12, 2004 10:05 PM | PERMALINK

I have a friend who is a United Methodist pastor. He's a good guy -- he's a Democrat. However, he's one of those that has his head in the sand. You know, he gets his news in sound bites so he doesn't know what's going on. He thinks things are pretty much status quo -- you know, he believes what Bush says and doesn't check the facts, and that Democrats are as bad as Republicans. I sent him a copy of the Dick Meyer commentary on CBSNews.com. He responded that this was just commonplace for politicians --they all lie -- we all lie. He thinks I'm a conspiracy theorist. I have asked him to consider the possibility that I am right and what a chilling thought it would be. I just wish I could get it through his head that this time it IS different.

By the way, Bassfish, can a law made by Congress be rescinded if it is passed fraudulently? Can the American people sue the government for this?

Posted by: pol at March 12, 2004 10:14 PM | PERMALINK

The Bushites seek only to privatize government. That's all. When it is privatized, and only then, can compassionate conservatism bloom. Until that time, any obstacles that prevent that sea-change from occuring, are, essentially, unpatriotic. In a time of war, the unpatriotic are fair game for the government. Being fair targets, should any attack upon the custodians of the government rebound upon those who attack, the fault is strictly their own. The fault being their own, they should be prepared to suffer the consequences of their actions, as the government see's fit to act.

Posted by: Sovereign Eye at March 12, 2004 10:14 PM | PERMALINK

Smalfish, while I really do share your pain, the media *have* been on this one. That is, in fact, why we know about it.

Good ol' Knight-Ridder -- publisher of the Miami Herald, as well as my local paper for 19 years, the San Jose Mercury News. Good on 'em. They've never been really in love with Bush, and they're finding the strength of that conviction.

What's starting to bother me, though, is this: If Kerry wins in November, what's the day after going to be like? There is now so much of this crap built up that I don't think the American people will be satisfied to just shine it on and Move Forward For The Good Of The Nation.

I think, at this point, the good of the nation demands a long and public inquiry into all the stuff Bush has thrust upon us, and re-ordering of our national priorities on almost every front. There's got to some cleansing, some truth-telling, and probably some blood-letting before we'll be ready to heal from the monstrous damage done over the past three years.

But I don't yet trust the Democrats to go there. If they stay true to their (spineless, jellyfish) form, they'll just want to be "positive," and make nice, and sweep it all down the memory hole. Maybe, if we're lucky, that might change in the next nine months. But I'll believe it when I see it.

Posted by: Mrs. Robinson at March 12, 2004 10:15 PM | PERMALINK

pol, this drug entitlement bill is a horrible law and should be rescinded because of how horrible it is (not to mention, sadly, that we can't afford it).

but if we start rescinding every law that made its way through congress on the basis of some degree of fraud, we will rapidly be testing the libertarian paradise of no laws....

Posted by: howard at March 12, 2004 10:16 PM | PERMALINK

"But I don't yet trust the Democrats to go there. If they stay true to their (spineless, jellyfish) form, they'll just want to be "positive," and make nice, and sweep it all down the memory hole. Maybe, if we're lucky, that might change in the next nine months. But I'll believe it when I see it."

I agree.Bill Clinton,when he came into office had Bush I on the hot seat.If youremember he was facing congressional investigation for Iran-contra.Cllinton being the nice guy he was decided to let ol george off and try and make nice with te repubs.What did he got for his efforts?Well...
In short I dont trust that the dems will do anything extreme like clean hose in the government like it must do.The question becomes what CAN we do?

The constitution has a clause in it"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

"and to petition the government for a redress of grievances"

"Victims of quackery often have difficulty obtaining redress through the courts. Many are afraid of lawyers. Some are embarrassed at having been fooled. Too often the victim does nothing, simply dismissing the fraud as one of life's lessons."

redress--To set right; remedy or rectify.
To make amends to.
To make amends for. See Synonyms at correct.
To adjust (a balance, for example).

n. (also rdrs)
Satisfaction for wrong or injury; reparation. See Synonyms at reparation.
Correction or reformation.


I wonder what it takes to redress the congress?

Posted by: smalfish at March 12, 2004 10:41 PM | PERMALINK

"In short I dont trust that the dems will do anything extreme like clean hose in the government like it must do.The question becomes what CAN we do?"

Don't say we, you are not of mine, I'm a dem, you sir are a whiner.

I work while you snivel.

Posted by: perpwalk at March 12, 2004 11:12 PM | PERMALINK

"But I don't yet trust the Democrats to go there. If they stay true to their (spineless, jellyfish) form, they'll just want to be "positive," and make nice, and sweep it all down the memory hole. Maybe, if we're lucky, that might change in the next nine months. But I'll believe it when I see it.
Posted by Mrs. Robinson at March 12, 2004 10:15 PM | PERMALINK"

And fuck you, too.

Posted by: perpwalk at March 12, 2004 11:15 PM | PERMALINK

Here are a few links on why expecting anything beyond "issue of concern" from Bill Frist regarding intimidating truth - is very unlikely.

Bill Frist's Built-In Conflict -
http://www.metropulse.com/dir_zine/dir_2003/1328/t_cover.html

It seems Frist's family founded and own's billions in "Hospital Corp. of America (HCA), the nation's largest hospital chain." Bill Frist himself has millions involved in the family business.

Medicare Bill Would Enrich Companies -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8790-2003Nov23.html

"Hospitals would get nearly $24 billion extra over the next decade ..."

Medicare Debate Turns to Pricing of Drug Benefits -
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/24/politics/24MEDI.html

........................................
Under the bill, the government would subsidize a new type of insurance policy known as a prescription drug plan.

"In order to promote competition," the bill says, the secretary of health and human services "may not interfere with the negotiations between drug manufacturers and pharmacies and prescription drug plan sponsors, and may not require a particular formulary or institute a price structure for the reimbursement" of drugs.

Tommy G. Thompson, the secretary of health and human services, said Sunday that if Congress wanted to give him the power to negotiate drug prices, it could do so next year. But "that's not a reason to oppose this Medicare bill," said Mr. Thompson, who negotiated with Bayer to obtain a lower price for the company's anthrax medicine, the antibiotic Cipro, in 2001.

Representative Tom Allen, Democrat of Maine, said it struck him as absurd that "the government will not be able to negotiate lower prices" for the drugs on which it plans to spend $400 billion in the next decade.

"The bill will allow the pharmaceutical industry to continue charging America's seniors the highest prices in the world," Mr. Allen said.

Representative Peter A. DeFazio, Democrat of Oregon, said, "We could provide a much more meaningful benefit if we negotiated lower prices as other nations have done."

Representative Rahm Emanuel, Democrat of Illinois, said: "We could bring down drug prices if we allowed the secretary of health and human services to negotiate on behalf of 40 million seniors. That is what Sam's Club does."

Sam's Club, a chain of warehouse stores that is a division of Wal-Mart, acts like a purchasing agent for its members, who can buy low-price goods.

Republicans say that health plans will be able to negotiate lower drug prices for Medicare beneficiaries, just as they do for large groups of employees with private insurance.

The Senate majority leader, Bill Frist, Republican of Tennessee, said: "We tend to use the purchasing power of private entities like individual plans to hold down costs over time. The Democrats tend to emphasize, and thus push for, more government control, government purchasing. We just think that competition through the private sector, through bulk purchasing and negotiation, is a more effective means to hold down prices."
........................................

Bill Frist seems to feel that the government shouldn't be allowed to negotiate lower prices. The private sector and private entities will do that. I guess the savings from the private sector and private entities will 'trickle down' to the people. He's thinking about the people and not his portfolio and family business.

Why doesn't anyne call 'trickle down' economics what it really is - 'tinkle on?'

Posted by: Anonymous at March 12, 2004 11:29 PM | PERMALINK

*thumps head on the wall several times*

The thought of four more years of this fills me with dread.

Posted by: Irrational Bush Hatred at March 12, 2004 11:59 PM | PERMALINK

Well, the Boston Globe has picked up the story, and is running an abbreviated version of Tony Pugh's Knight-Ridder article here. It's not a Top Globe Nation story, but it's better than nothing.

Checking a bit further, the article has been reprinted 54 times so far, according to Google News. So it's getting some attention.

Posted by: dbc at March 13, 2004 12:04 AM | PERMALINK

Heh.

Maybe they'll find him in the basque region of spain, just for shits and giggles.

Posted by: perpwalk at March 13, 2004 12:09 AM | PERMALINK

Friends: Don't forget to do a background check on Bill Frist. His family is the owner of a huge HMO. It was in his family's best interest for the Medicare bill to pass. He wouldn't have been too keen to see it either derailed or postponed. Ain't that grand? Don't think he's looking out for US...cause he isn't.

Posted by: Sean at March 13, 2004 12:57 AM | PERMALINK

I see the liberals are still wringing their hands because they FAILED for eight years to provide any help to poor seniors and it took a Republican working in the spirit of bipartisan
to get the Bill past.

Our seniors have been forced to choose between food and drugs and have to eat dog food because Democrats failed to lead. Why I remeber the sob stories of Al Gore about the poor...now Democrats want to take it away from them and leave them dying in the streets.

This is just like the Patriot Act and the War on Terror and the Education Act, Democrats in Congress support it and then attack it later.

You failed, we succeeded and as Trump would say.....

YOU'RE FIRRREEEDDDD!!!!

Posted by: KEISER at March 13, 2004 01:32 AM | PERMALINK

Keiser,

Let me know who your dealer is, becuase wow, your drugs have gotta be really, really, really, really good. ;-)

Posted by: Timothy Klein at March 13, 2004 01:50 AM | PERMALINK

Posted by perpwalk: "Don't say we, you are not of mine, I'm a dem, you sir are a whiner. I work while you snivel."

Well, we can hope that you're working. But the fact remains that a lot of Dems haven't been working for anyone but themselves and the stores who bought them. They bear much responsibility for the corrupt mess that is strangling democracy and freedom out of this country.

perpwalk: "And fuck you, too."

Is that the kind of work you do? We get too much of that already from Leiberman, Daschle, Breaux, Biden, and any number of other slimy invertebrates.

Posted by: Timothy Klein: "Keiser, Let me know who your dealer is, becuase wow, your drugs have gotta be really, really, really, really good."

He doesn't have a dealer -- he is one. He deals free samples of the delusions he's swallowed and in demonstrating the character of the cartel which controls him.

Posted by: jayarbee at March 13, 2004 02:06 AM | PERMALINK

Timothy, Keiser's only 13. He's not old enough to take the good drugs.

Posted by: Jesurgislac at March 13, 2004 02:13 AM | PERMALINK

If even the doctors and the automobile manufacturers now agree that we'd be better off with national health care, is it really still too early to put this on the presidential agenda?

Posted by: bad Jim at March 13, 2004 02:36 AM | PERMALINK

Perpwalk:
Don't say we, you are not of mine, I'm a dem, you sir are a whiner.

I work while you snivel.

Well, said! I know you're not supposed to feed the trolls but sometimes there's nothing like typing the "fuck you" running through your mind as you read them.

They're co-opting Nader's no "difference between the two parties" stance at a time when nothing could be further from the truth.

Posted by: mw liberal at March 13, 2004 05:07 AM | PERMALINK

"He obviously has an agenda! He's a nutcase!"

...in five, four, three, two, one...

Posted by: praktike at March 13, 2004 05:36 AM | PERMALINK

Last night I saw the ad supporting the admnistration's plan. Message: "don't worry, be happy." Nothing about a 25% increase for those who stay in traditional programs. I wonder how that got forgotten?

"Liars" is almost a complement by faint damnation.

Posted by: Glen at March 13, 2004 05:48 AM | PERMALINK

All we can do at this point is hope that Kerry is as tough as he seems, so far. He was one of my last choices out of all of the Dems, but he's been in scary situations before in his life, he's smart and he has gonads, let's hope he uses both.

Posted by: Babba at March 13, 2004 06:02 AM | PERMALINK

Babba confuses 'tough' with 'willing to tell any lie'...which is what the Democrats strategy has been since December.

Have you no decency sir? At least the Corleone family had a code.......the Kerrys will stab you in the back and then kick your baby in the head.

Posted by: keiser at March 13, 2004 06:37 AM | PERMALINK

He'd better. Or we're toast.

Posted by: bobbyp at March 13, 2004 06:38 AM | PERMALINK

Still gonna vote Libertarian Kevin? Are your friends all voting Libertarian too, as most who register as such will vote in an election or will you help bring in change through kerry which can then create the atmosphere for vaulting a libertarian (or independent) candidate in the future, not this nazi regime?

Posted by: Jack at March 13, 2004 07:27 AM | PERMALINK

Tom Daschle has asked for a re-vote on the Medicare bill in light of these recent revelations.

(See paragraph 6: http://tinyurl.com/23aqy).

I'd like to see this vigourosly pursued by the increasingly spineful Democrats. I wonder if there are any recent precedents for such an action and whether the Dems have any power to force it?

Posted by: Vesicle Trafficker at March 13, 2004 07:34 AM | PERMALINK

Front Page of WP is very interesting today.

Official Says He Was Told To Withhold Medicare Data

Then this ought to make conservatives happy. Or maybe they trust the government now, you know, like a big brother or something.

Easier Internet Wiretaps Sought
Justice Dept., FBI Want Consumers To Pay the Cost

By Dan Eggen and Jonathan Krim
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, March 13, 2004; Page A01


The Justice Department wants to significantly expand the government's ability to monitor online traffic, proposing that providers of high-speed Internet service should be forced to grant easier access for FBI wiretaps and other electronic surveillance, according to documents and government officials.

A petition filed this week with the Federal Communications Commission also suggests that consumers should be required to foot the bill.

Posted by: TURBO at March 13, 2004 07:36 AM | PERMALINK

Why not just order computer maker to put little cameras and mikes in your computer while there at it.

Posted by: TURBO at March 13, 2004 07:39 AM | PERMALINK

Posted by mw liberal: " ... sometimes there's nothing like typing the "fuck you" running through your mind ... They're co-opting Nader's no "difference between the two parties" stance at a time when nothing could be further from the truth."

I think it's more a case of you and perpwalk co-opting Bush's "if you're not with us you're against us" arrogance at a time when you need all the friends you can get. People strongly opposed to Bush and who see his policies as harmful and illegal do not need to conform to your party line in order to legitimize their opposition; nor should their criticism of spineless Democrats who have enabled Bush be cause for a "fuck the French" dismissal of them. Now, fuck yourself.


Posted by: jayarbee at March 13, 2004 07:40 AM | PERMALINK

By the way, Bassfish, can a law made by Congress be rescinded if it is passed fraudulently? Can the American people sue the government for this?

Yes itthey can but ultimately that leads to the Supreme Court and we know where that's headed if AWOL wins in november, right.

Posted by: postit at March 13, 2004 07:42 AM | PERMALINK

Shorter Keiser-

"Mmmmmm....the smell of BUsh's ass is great!"

Posted by: marty at March 13, 2004 07:42 AM | PERMALINK

Highly recommended, Brian Urquhart's detailed review of a pair of books in the latest NYRB.

Urquhart reports on Blix's book first, gives Blix full credit, then sinks his teeth into the Hutton Commission report which he calls "meticulous" which he deconstructs quite wonderfully.

By the end of this, it was very clear to me why Tenet is wriggling like an insect on a pin. After all, some of Tenet's inside information would have come from "high administration officials" with close ties to the defense industry which had, after all, supplied Saddam with specific lethal goodies in the 1980's and which would be glad to supply even more goodies for a 2003 war. Tenet, after all, would like to retire eventually into several nice directorships just like any other good ol' patriot.

Posted by: Bean at March 13, 2004 07:44 AM | PERMALINK

FRom the WP article -

"Jeffrey Citron, chief executive of Internet phone provider Vonage Inc., said the FBI is overreaching. He said that he and other providers cooperate fully with law enforcement, and that if the FBI has ongoing concerns, it should strive to change the law governing wiretaps."

Good idea Mr. Citron but that would reqire changing the law which would require Congress to vote on it, and can you imagine Congress voting for this?

Posted by: TURBO at March 13, 2004 07:48 AM | PERMALINK

Translation:

Healthy people who saced pay for the healthcare of old folks for whom political pandering was supposed to pay their life's costs. Now Kevin Drum is bitching because healthy people were given a break.

If you are young and out of work, Kevin's big government is something you cannot afford with the wages you will earn. You can kiss away another 10% of your wages, on top of the 18% already taken in California. Thus, Kevin would fix the wor5lds problems with a 28% entitlement tax on the workling poor.

And the left calls this justice?

Posted by: Matt Young at March 13, 2004 08:20 AM | PERMALINK

Why not just order computer maker to put little cameras and mikes in your computer while there at it.

My laptop has both built in so I'm ready ;-)

Posted by: qtip at March 13, 2004 08:34 AM | PERMALINK

Marty gives us his view:

"Mmmmmm....the smell of BUsh's ass is great!"

Thanks Marty, Bush usually comes out of these arguments smelling pretty good, no matter how much trash the leftists throw at him.

Your testimony only strenghtens my argument.
Kerry's ass is stale and something crawled up in there and died man....

Posted by: kesier at March 13, 2004 08:40 AM | PERMALINK

More proof if actually necessary that John Kerry is a Corleone:

Kerry (The current Multilateralist) Praised Clinton for Snubbing Allies

John Kerry has repeatedly slammed President Bush for not getting the cooperation of European allies before attacking Iraq.

But in 1997, Kerry praised President Clinton for planning to attack Iraq by deploying ships, aircraft and troops over the objections of France and Russia. ((OBJECTIONS!)

In a Nov. 1997 broadcast Kerry painted Clinton as resolute for putting U.S. war plans against Baghdad in motion.

"The president has, in effect, put military action on the table," he told CNN's "Crossfire."

"Secretary Cohen canceled his trip, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff canceled a trip, troops are deployed, the aircraft carriers are being brandished. There's no misunderstanding here about where the United States is prepared to go," the Massachusetts Democrat assured.

Kerry praised the Clinton White House for thumbing its nose at our European allies.

"Clearly the allies may not like it," said the top Democrat, before suggesting that France and Russia were spineless.

"Where's the backbone of Russia, where's the backbone of France, where are they in expressing their condemnation of such clearly illegal activity," he railed. (REFFERING TO SADDAM WMD)

Kerry also praised the White House for giving the United Nations the brush off.

"The [Clinton] administration is leading. The administration is making it clear that they don't believe that they even need the U.N. Security Council to sign off on a material breach because the finding of material breach was made by [U.S. weapons inspector Richard] Butler."

Kerry defended President Clinton's go-it-alone war plan as the best way to protect U.S. national security, telling "Crossfire," "I think the United States has always reserved the right and will reserve the right to act in its best interests."

"It's obvious that the real reason Kerry was for military action last time around in 1997 and not now, is because the last time it was a Democratic president thinking about doing it."

VERY OBVIOUS THAT KERRY IS BEING A POLITICAL HACK AND IF THIS WAS AL GORE INSTEAD OF BUSH, KERRY WOULD TODAY BE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT.

AHHH Family (Mafia family of Democrats) over
convictions.

Posted by: keiser at March 13, 2004 08:47 AM | PERMALINK

Let me repeat what Kerry said:

Kerry praised the White House for thumbing its nose at our European allies.

"Clearly the allies may not like it," said the top Democrat, before suggesting that France and Russia were spineless.

"Where's the backbone of Russia, where's the backbone of France, where are they in expressing their condemnation of such clearly illegal activity," he railed. (REFFERING TO SADDAM WMD)

Kerry also praised the White House for giving the United Nations the brush off.

"The administration is leading. The administration is making it clear that they don't believe that they even need the U.N. Security Council to sign off on a material breach because the finding of material breach was made by Butler.''''''''''''''''

Now how could any of you read this and not believe in your heart that Kerry is now just being a political oportunist? Come on..game set match...Bush wins again!

Posted by: keiser at March 13, 2004 08:51 AM | PERMALINK

LOL, qtip, your right. I guess all they have to do now is order Microsft to open them a hidden port into your computer. Should have been "makers" also. Keiser is worried about the wrong people.

Posted by: TURBO at March 13, 2004 08:58 AM | PERMALINK

I am about ready to sell tickets for the duel between perpwalk and keiser. What do you suggest I charge and what weapons shall we have them use?

Posted by: ___league at March 13, 2004 09:40 AM | PERMALINK
"In short I dont trust that the dems will do anything extreme like clean hose in the government like it must do.The question becomes what CAN we do?"


Don't say we, you are not of mine, I'm a dem, you sir are a whiner.


I work while you snivel.

perp, you're missing the tone here, and getting all sensitive. The indisputable fact is that the Democratic Party leadership has for too long been afraid of confrontation, and has rolled over far too easily for the Rethug bullies. Only recently have some members of the D (including Kerry) gone ahead and strapped on some XXL stones and started swinging them. We must encourage this behavior by reminding them how lame they've been. It is not wrong to be critical of one's own party, if it makes that party stronger.

However, there is a need to keep a more nuanced perspective. Should we win, it will be a close and contentious contest, and I doubt the mood of the populace will be right for a full-blown Truth Commission, as justified as it is. We must be smart in thinking up the best strategy for cutting off the wingers' supply of kool-aid so they cannot poison the nation in '06 and pull another Gingrich. We must shut them down long-term! For many reasons, this means getting the GOP to purge itself and return to its place as a rational party, rather than just allow Dem hegemony over all politics. I'll vote straight D until this happens, but I'd really like to have a choice between two (or more) reasonable alternatives.

So, I think it's reasonable to discuss ideas for Dem strategy that best shows the nation (and old-skool Repubs) how crooked these people are. We can be tough, but we should not be vicious or mendacious. Sometimes, a little jujitsu is in order.

Posted by: peejay at March 13, 2004 09:45 AM | PERMALINK

Posted by keiser: "Let me repeat what Kerry said:"

Since you quote Kerry extensively in two lengthy posts, I'd like to point out that quotations tend to carry more weight when they are accompanied by verifiable attributions. But assuming their authenticity, they and your remarks concerning them fail to provide proper context for U.S./Iraqi relations 7 years ago; and they fail to make distinctions between then and now. For instance, Iraq may have actually yet possessed WMDs in 1997. More importantly, though, no matter any actions then being considered by Clinton and supported by Kerry, neither of them were advocating a full-scale foreign invasion, occupation, and takeover.

keiser: "Bush wins again!"

The trouble is that every time Bush wins, nearly everyone else loses. Your sadistic glee in this fact defines you.

Posted by: jayarbee at March 13, 2004 09:57 AM | PERMALINK

I am about ready to sell tickets for the duel between perpwalk and keiser. What do you suggest I charge and what weapons shall we have them use?

Spitwads and whoopee cushions? Just be sure the ringside quack knows the heimlich, for when keiser chokes on his own bile.

Posted by: dryListener at March 13, 2004 10:25 AM | PERMALINK

jayarbee gets angry with the truth....
I know it hurt Jay, to see the truth about John Kerry laid bare before you.....I know you want to believe he is the one true savior, but he's a corporate hack and a lying crooked politician...
he will say whatever happens to fit the story THAT day..and does care what he said yesterday, tomorrow.

yesterday we didn't need allies or the UN, France were Cowards, etc....today we mustn't do anything without the UN and we shouldn't say anything bad about France... come on its pure political hackery of the worst kind.

Your inability to call a spade a spade says much more about you, than me. You guys picked Kerry and your stuck with him...but you didn't botgher vetting him at all, and now your stuck....we are going to pick his tired carcus apart and leave you with the check!

Posted by: keiser at March 13, 2004 10:31 AM | PERMALINK

I know it hurt Jay, to see the truth about John Kerry laid bare before you.....I know you want to believe he is the one true savior, but he's a corporate hack and a lying crooked politician...

If the available options in november come down to choosing between a 'lying crooked politician' or an evangalist then I for one will pick the 'lying crooked politician', at least he could be bought off or reasoned with. I'm ready to consign this experiment with faith based government to the trash bin of history.

Posted by: postit at March 13, 2004 10:52 AM | PERMALINK

I'm afraid I have to agree with keiser here...Clinton really was a great president.

Posted by: kitten at March 13, 2004 11:15 AM | PERMALINK

If everyone thinks that the plan gave away too much in benefits how in the world can people support Kerry and his 800-900 billion dollar Health plan?

Bush gives away an unintended 100 billion in Medicare because of assumption differences
between Congress's Budget estimates and his own.

Democrat Spin- Bush Bad! Bush Crook! Bush Lied! Congress not responsible.

Kerry promises a 800-900 billion dollar health plan while balancing the deficit. Then says in an ad that he never said he'd raise taxes to pay for it.

Democrat spin- Kerry Good! Spending Good! Money for promises will come from thin air!

All politicians suck. Democrats suck more. There only chance is to rely on the fact that they've been out of power for long enough that everyone remembers how much they suck.

Posted by: Researcher at March 13, 2004 11:28 AM | PERMALINK

For fairness, though the administrator for Medicare needs to be disciplined for threatening his actuary. If he says Tommy knew and Tommy says Bush knew you have meat.

Posted by: Researcher at March 13, 2004 11:30 AM | PERMALINK

kitten yacks out a peculiar hairball:

'''I'm afraid I have to agree with keiser here...Clinton really was a great president.'''

Finally, someone AGREES with me. Thank You kitten..those first two minutes of the Clinton presidency were great...but the rest really sucked.

Clinton could have been great if he actually got something done and didn't spend his time sodomizing the employees, not reigning in the wall street crooks like Enron and Worldcom, allowing Al Queda to attack, kill, train recruit with impunity, having fundraisers with foriegn crooks and spies and pardoning all kinds of assorted vermin. That and causing the recession and Sept 11th pretty much have sealed his legacy.

Posted by: keiser at March 13, 2004 12:24 PM | PERMALINK

Inasmuch as this kind of fraud undermines our democracy, isn't it likely that Federal statutes concerning misuse of a Federal agency might have been violated?

Posted by: BobNJ at March 13, 2004 12:35 PM | PERMALINK

bobnj-
seems possible. i'll contact my rep and see what he thinks, let's get this into congress asap while the buzz is buzzin'.

i wonder if keiser thinks clinton wouldn't have won a third term over Lt. Snugglesuit.
did i say 'thinks'?

Posted by: just rex at March 13, 2004 12:49 PM | PERMALINK

keiser --

While blaming Clinton for all ill in the world you omitted warping the minds of the American wingnuts--I mean, what bothers you so much about the guy? Is it that he did a competent job while still having a good time? That the middle class of America actually accumulated a bit of wealth during his two terms, making them uppity?

Or are you just some kind of Anne Coulter wannabe?

Posted by: dryListener at March 13, 2004 01:44 PM | PERMALINK

Drylistener shoots a doozy..heads for the showers:
"""While blaming Clinton for all ill in the world ..""""

I beg your pardon...I don't believe I blamed Clinton for anything he wasn't responsible for
but you may just be ignorant of the facts..please spend some time studying the facts..then get back to me with your apology.
Actually I loved Clinton, he was great for getting Republicans elected.

Ohh, and Ann Coulter is too liberal for my tastes, she needs to quit holding back and go for the jugular so to speak...
Thanks, K

Posted by: keiser at March 13, 2004 01:49 PM | PERMALINK

Keister, you need help. In the immortal words of Robin Williams: You are in more dire need of a blowjob than any white man in history.

Bye now, remember to wipe the spittle off the screen.

Posted by: dryListener at March 13, 2004 02:33 PM | PERMALINK

Thanks, Drylistener...but I can manage my sex life without you, but the offer of the BJ was a nice gesture.

I would be more concerned with John Kerry's mental state than my sex life: have you heard:

FIRST KERRY WIFE: Coming home, John Kerry, according to his former wife, suffered nightmares and flashbacks.

SECOND KERRY WIFE: Soon Heinz discovered that, even in his sleep, Kerry is haunted by Vietnam in nightmares. The first nightmare I heard, I was actually not with him, Heinz says. Before we got married, I was sleeping with one of his daughters in this little shed, a little barn, it was. He was in this little room next door. Then, all of a sudden, I heard this tremendous banging on the wall. I said, 'Oh!' And Alex said, 'It's just Dad.' Kerry laughs an uneasy laugh. So I went back to bed, Heinz continues, and he hit the walls again, and I said, 'Holy mackerel!' The next morning, I said, 'What did you dream about?' He said, 'Why?' I said, 'Because you broke down the house, almost.' He said, 'Vietnam.'

DO WE NEED TO HAVE A PRESIDENT HAVING A FLASHBACK WHEN HE IS IN A TENSE STAND-OFF WITH NORTH KOREA???


HAS THIS GUY SEEN A SHRINK?? CAN WE SEE THE RECORDS THAT HE IS CURED?

Posted by: kEISER at March 13, 2004 03:41 PM | PERMALINK

I was all wound up to respond to perpwalk's invitation to commit a certain physiological impossibility by launching my best "impugning the dignity of a lady" speech (I do a good one, if I say so myself).

But, reading forward, I find that several gallants have dealt with the cad on my behalf. My thanks to you all.

I feel badly for Kevin, actually. When you compare his comment lists with, say, Dave Niewart's or Billmon's, the quality of discourse here suffers badly. It's almost certainly due to the preponderance of trolls this blog seems to attract. You deserve better, sir.

What can we do to clean it up?

Posted by: Mrs. Robinson at March 13, 2004 03:52 PM | PERMALINK

Mrs. Robinson, talk around the trolls.

Sometimes I feel the need to respond to Al, Keiser, or whoever is in Karl's boiler room for the day. I type up an angry response. And then 90% of the time I close out the comments window without posting.

Result - relieved my irritation, didn't satisfy the offending troll with a response.

Posted by: Librul at March 13, 2004 04:33 PM | PERMALINK

OK, OK, No more trolling for me..how is this:

I certainly agree with all your comments about how wonderful John Kerry is and how utterly terrible George Bush is...I agree with you and you and you and especially you. Let's congratulate each other on all thinking alike and having no discussions with any other opinion on the issues of the day. Kerry good, Bush Bad, Democrats saints, Republicans evil.

I agree with all of you that the Clinton adminstration was never wrong, not on a single thing and created a utopia in America that Bush managed to somehow destroy in his first 15 seconds in office. Ohh, that terrible Bush that was selected and not elected.

Ohh yes, I agree I agree I agree......lets have a wonderful echo chamber where we are not questioned. Let's call it Calechochamberscript.com..no punditry..we just read the daily Democrat talking points and agree..agree..agree!


On second thought........Nah...you people deserve better than that..you deserve to free your minds, to be open to new ideas, new thoughts, we will break the mainstream media matrix!

Posted by: Keiser at March 13, 2004 05:01 PM | PERMALINK

For the first time in histoy, Daschle wants to cut a program. There's hope yet! I was against it since the beginning. I know it was in the news last year, but how did the CBO miss it? The people in Congress said they went by their numbers when they voted on it. As far as Kerry being strong. Forget it. David Brooks has him nailed today in the N.Y. Times. www.nytimes.com/2004/03/13/opinion/13BROO.html

Posted by: Meatss at March 13, 2004 06:11 PM | PERMALINK

"perp, you're missing the tone here, and getting all sensitive."

No, I am not 'getting sensitive, jerkoff.


"So, I think it's reasonable to discuss ideas for Dem strategy that best shows the nation (and old-skool Repubs) how crooked these people are. We can be tough, but we should not be vicious or mendacious. Sometimes, a little jujitsu is in order.
Posted by peejay at March 13, 2004 09:45 AM | PERMALINK"

I'll knock your ass out.

Posted by: perpwalk at March 13, 2004 06:19 PM | PERMALINK

"I was all wound up to respond to perpwalk's invitation to commit a certain physiological impossibility by launching my best "impugning the dignity of a lady" speech (I do a good one, if I say so myself).

But, reading forward, I find that several gallants have dealt with the cad on my behalf. My thanks to you all. "

Chickenshit, bring it on or go make me some eggs.

Sheesh.

Posted by: perpwalk at March 13, 2004 06:23 PM | PERMALINK

Posted by perpwalk: "I'll knock your ass out."

For the sake of your ex-wife or whomever else may have a restraining order against you, I hope you're wearing an electronic monitor on your ankle. And please don't kick the dog again.

Posted by: jayarbee at March 13, 2004 06:57 PM | PERMALINK

perpwalk, you & keiser really should duke it out.

how about no more posts from either of you until this urgent matter is settled.

then we'd love to get the blow-by-blow from both of you.

Posted by: obscure at March 13, 2004 08:09 PM | PERMALINK

"For the sake of your ex-wife or whomever else may have a restraining order against you, I hope you're wearing an electronic monitor on your ankle. And please don't kick the dog again.
Posted by jayarbee at March 13, 2004 06:57 PM | PERMALINK"

Ain't no thing, boy.

Bring it.

Quit boring me.

Posted by: perpwalk at March 13, 2004 10:42 PM | PERMALINK

keiser rants: "Finally, someone AGREES with me. Thank You kitten..those first two minutes of the Clinton presidency were great...but the rest really sucked."

Didn't the country do well economically?
Were we in constant danger here at home?
Did we go further in debt as a nation?
Were more or less people employed?

I mean really, what was so bad, except the constant hounding of Clinton for having a mistress?


keiser continues: "Clinton could have been great if he actually got something done"

Like producing a balanced budget after good old GHW Bush said it was impossible, we had to grow the economy, and the Congress literally taunted a Dem. for voting in favor of the first budget which headed us toward a balanced budget?

Like adding more cops on the beat to bring down the national crime rates?

Like having great international relations with peoples and leaders everywhere?

Like giving a shit about ordinary folk and not just Kenny Boy Lay?

I could go on, but you already know this stuff.


keiser: "and didn't spend his time sodomizing the employees,"

one thing I agree with you about


keiser: "not reigning in the wall street crooks like Enron and Worldcom,"

He tried, but Congress opposed tighter accountability rules/laws.


keiser: "allowing Al Queda to attack, kill, train recruit with impunity,


I don't recall him "allowing" anything like that and there was no "impunity". Rather, whenever Clinton tried to use military forces against Al Qaeda the Republicans claimed he was "wagging the dog". He was also interested in using approrpriate forces, rather than wasting lives and billions of dollars as Bush did in Iraq.


keiser: "having fundraisers with foriegn crooks and spies"


Cite?


keiser: "and pardoning all kinds of assorted vermin."


Cite?


keiser: "That and causing the recession"


Check the sharply increasing interest rates of early 2000 and ask who increased them. I think it was the Fed and Greenspan and all the talk of large tax cuts by Bush which scared the economy into recession.

If you disagree you can easily cite things Clinton did to cause the recession.


keiser: "and Sept 11th pretty much have sealed his legacy."
Posted by keiser at March 13, 2004 12:24 PM | PERMALINK


Still trying to blame 9/11 on Clinton, eh?
That's a good one. LOL

Posted by: MarkH at March 14, 2004 03:20 PM | PERMALINK

If the Democrats, people who are here, reading and commenting on this blog, really wanted either of the Clintons back in power, THEY WOULD BE. Keep obsessing on the Clintons and we're sure to win this election.

Posted by: Babba at March 14, 2004 04:09 PM | PERMALINK

BLOCKBUSTER FROM KERRY BIOGRAPHER:

Kerry attended vote on whether to assasinate American Senators.

What did Sen. John Kerry know and when did he know it about a plot to assassinate U.S. senators hatched at a November 1971 Kansas City meeting of his group Vietnam Veterans Against America?

According to presidential biographer Douglas Brinkley, that's the question Sen. Kerry needs to answer. If it turns out that the Democratic presidential nominee knew of the treasonous plan, Brinkley says he had an obligation to go to the authorities.

"The question is: did Kerry quit [VVAW] before Kansas City or did he quit after Kansas City," Brinkley told WABC Radio's Steve Malzberg. "If he quit after Kansas City, that means he clearly knew about this assassination plot against the senators and never went to the authorities."

Kerry says he submitted his official letter of resignation to the VVAW just days before the critical Kansas City confab. But two Vietnam veterans who attended the session told the New York Sun on Friday that they remember Kerry being there.

Meanwhile, copies of Kerry's resignation letter are nowhere to be found.

Brinkley, whose book "Tour of Duty" chronicles Kerry's Vietnam War exploits, said that the former Navy lieutenant had an obligation to warn authorities about the frightening plan, telling Malzberg, "Clearly his critics would say, if he had known about it why didn't he report it."

Kerry officials in Florida have recently invited the assassination plan's author, Scott Camil, to join the senator's campaign.

Brinkley described Camil as "a hothead who wanted to bring down the U.S. government."

"I'm a little shocked that the Kerry campaign would want him actively working with them in Florida," he told Malzberg.

WOW, AND I THOUGHT BUSH WAS BAD FOR MISSING A MEETING AND MAKING IT UP LATER..WHAT WILL MACAULLIFFE SAY ABOUT PLOTTING TO KILL US SENATORS???

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