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February 28, 2004 GAY MARRIAGE AND LOCAL ACTIVISM....The Hudson River town of New Paltz became the latest front in the gay marriage movement when its mayor starting marrying gay couples yesterday. Over at The Blogging of the President, Justin Krebs has some interesting background about how New Paltz happens to have a mayor who's doing this. By the way, one of the people who got married in New Paltz is the New York Times stringer who was recently fired because he belonged to a gay activist group ten years ago. Posted by Kevin Drum at February 28, 2004 02:35 PM | TrackBackComments
Again with the gay marriage.....I am sensing a pattern. ANYWAY..IT IS 'SAME SEX' MARRIAGE....ANY GAY PERSON CAN MARRY SOMEONE OF THE OPPOSITE SEX TODAY. WHAT YOU WANT IS SAME-SEX MARRIAGE BECAUSE TODAY MARRIAGE IS TWO DIFFERENT SEXES. It must be kind of sad to be gay...and never be able to experience sex. So sad. I really feel for them. Posted by: keiser at February 28, 2004 02:55 PM | PERMALINKKeiser YELLING IS CONSIDERED RUDE. Please don't do it. Posted by: ____league at February 28, 2004 03:16 PM | PERMALINKLew Serviss, a Times editor, is the one to call about gays and the "don't breath, don't be gay" NYT employment policy. (212) 556-1234 then '2' for the directory to be directly connected to his voice mail. They don't call it 'Homotown' for nothin. Posted by: obe at February 28, 2004 03:21 PM | PERMALINKWhether or not your gay, straight, or inbetween, the issue lies with seperation of church and state. Instead of beating about an issue that will end up getting it legislated, until the laws change so often as to make it illegal per se, keeping it forever an issue. Hire counsel to show it is a moral issue and proving it deals with morallity and religious issues. Then start decrying the seperation of church and state. Alot like those mullahs, and Islamic religious orders failing to seperate the church state issue. Funnier still Iran is fighting the battle to seperate church and state long before we even realized we need to fight the same battle. Posted by: IXLNXS at February 28, 2004 03:25 PM | PERMALINKFactual nitpick- I believe what Jason was doing was not issuing licenses, but "solemnizing" marriages. The town clerk refused to issue licenses, but NY law says you don't need a license, just an official to solemnize your marriage, for it to be valid. Posted by: bryguy at February 28, 2004 03:30 PM | PERMALINKBryguy: Thanks. I've fixed the text. Posted by: Kevin Drum at February 28, 2004 03:35 PM | PERMALINKHmmm, this is beginning to seem like a dam breaking - despite the efforts of reactionaries around the country to plug all the leaks. It reminds me somewhat of the movie "Pleasantville" when color starting showing up in the town's little black-and-white world and the locals tried desperately to stop it. They didn't know why color was bad - it was just new and different and they couldn't accept it. Is this trend going to spread across the country or will the reactionaries be able to halt it and shove the genie back into the bottle? Posted by: Michael at February 28, 2004 04:01 PM | PERMALINKfor all this talk about man/woman marriage being the "prime, traditional basis for society", it's more of the science vs. religion war. Just for those who are curious, I used to live east of Poughkeepsie, which is near New Paltz. New Paltz is widely regarded as Berkely on the Hudson, and is located very near Woodstock. Posted by: John Cole at February 28, 2004 04:11 PM | PERMALINK"When he appealed to Edgerley she responded, “I am setting the bar high to protect against any appearance of conflict of interest that might result through the hiring of stringers and leg-people. My motivation is expediency as well as ethics––we simply do not spend as much time checking into the backgrounds of independent contractors as we do of fulltime staff people.”" Its too bad the times is'nt as rigorous in it's fact checking or reporting. Posted by: smalfish at February 28, 2004 04:23 PM | PERMALINKThis must stop! I'm all for Amendments. Yes, let's quantify marriage.
Start with a Family Integrity Agency--somebody's got to oversee the New
Purity. Draft Amendment here, addenda, comments and bomb threats welcome. fouro Your blog is utterly unreadable.Are you for the amendment or against?Are you for neocons or against them?Are you for the president or against them?I'm under the assumption you are for them for the fact you dont speak plainly.Its very difficult to get any clear ideas from these paragraphs. Posted by: smalfish at February 28, 2004 04:36 PM | PERMALINKThis is practically local news at The 18-1/2 Minute Gap. Watching the NY state government tying itself in knots over this is hilarious. There are currently bills in the Legislature both to make gay marriage explicitly illegal and to make it explicity legal. Neither are expected to pass this year. Posted by: Mike Jones at February 28, 2004 04:43 PM | PERMALINKMy wife graduated from SUNY New Paltz. When she was newly arrived California, I took her to Arcata for a few days. "My God, I've died and gone to New Paltz," she said. Posted by: AF at February 28, 2004 04:55 PM | PERMALINK"Attorney General Eliot Spitzer " American HERO! Posted by: smalfish at February 28, 2004 05:09 PM | PERMALINKHere's an interesting question? Two gay females get married..they
decide to have a baby...Now since they are married, they do not need to
have the spouse adopt the child. Two years later, they divorce. The Mother sues for full custody claiming the spouse is not a biological relation to the child....then the gay male friend sues for partial custody claiming it is his biological child. What is the court to do???? Say the Mom dies...does the court give the child to the spouse, who is no biological relation or to its biological father?? Is the living spouse obligated to take care of the child who is no relation to them?? can the father get custody and sue the former spousal for 1/2 the child support for a child she is unrelated to? Just a thought.... Posted by: Keiser at February 28, 2004 05:34 PM | PERMALINK"Just a thought...." Under the law as Eddie Murphy so aptly put it.HALF!!!!! Posted by: smalfish at February 28, 2004 05:44 PM | PERMALINKKeiser: The child custody issue is tangential to the issue of same-sex unions. Custody issues in same-sex couples are around *now*, whether or not same-sex unions become possible. Posted by: AF at February 28, 2004 06:23 PM | PERMALINKKeiser -- I have no idea what your example is supposed to prove about the viability of gay marriage. You can produce an identical scenario if you imagine a man-woman marriage in which the man is sterile and the impregnating friend is straight -- so what does this example have to do with anything? Posted by: Rana at February 28, 2004 06:24 PM | PERMALINKYour blog is utterly unreadable. Wow, Smallfish. "Unreadable." As in formatting? Or the point? Maybe mixing Hamlet and Spartacus was a bad idea? I'll try it without attempted irony or literary references: Are you for the amendment or against? Against. Are you for neocons or against them? Against. Are you for the president or against them? Against. Both of them. Posted by: fouro at February 28, 2004 06:57 PM | PERMALINKI am setting the bar high to protect against any appearance of conflict of interest that might result through the hiring of stringers and leg-people. Ten years seems a little long to keep people on blacklist, but maybe
it has historical precedent. Does anyone know how long it was for the
Commies and the NAACP? Keiser, if you actually had a thought in your head, you'd realize that such things happen with gay couples today. Moreover, such things have been known to happen with heterosexual couples, for one reason or another (adoption, divorce and remarriage, surrogate motherhood, etc.). So your little "interesting question" was neither interesting nor relevant to the topic under discussion. Posted by: PaulB at February 28, 2004 07:02 PM | PERMALINKSo tell me why Spitzer's blatantly ignoring the law to permit illegal conduct is something to celebrate? Bill Pryor acted to stop an act he thought right, but that went against the law as it stood. Pryor fulfilled his duty as AG, while Spitzer is failing badly. I think any intellectually honest person must admit this. But if this kind of civil disobedience is celebrated, I think its time for Republican governors to take action and start chaining shut the doors to all abortion clinics. Posted by: Reg at February 28, 2004 07:10 PM | PERMALINK"I think its time for Republican governors to take action and start chaining shut the doors to all abortion clinics." Reg, Then where would the GOP Governor's daughters get their abortions? Then where would the GOP Governor's daughters get their abortions? Peter: Democratic/Blue states. Same place the GOP gets it's tax dollars Posted by: fouro at February 28, 2004 07:28 PM | PERMALINKWhat makes a troll xfrosch? Somebody who points out inconvenient facts? Like there is no meaningful distinction between the situation with Roy Moore and the New Paltz mayor, and the Republican AG Pryor upheld the law while the Democratic AG Spitzer refused to enforce the law? Or that there would be no difference in local officials illegally closing up abortion shops than local officials issuing illegal marriage licenses? Posted by: Reg at February 28, 2004 08:37 PM | PERMALINKLike there is no meaningful distinction between the situation with Roy Moore and the New Paltz mayor there is a f'in HUGE distinction: Roy Moore wasn't found guilty of anything for over a year. his rock wasn't removed for over two years. if you're upset that none of these people have been found guilty of anything, blame the speed at which cases move through the court system, not that the big scary liberal conspiracy is acting to prevent justice being done. come back in ten months and maybe you can compare any of this to St. Moore. Posted by: cleek at February 28, 2004 08:45 PM | PERMALINKand is located very near Woodstock OMFG: guilt by proximity. someone add a new entry to the list of Logical Fallacies. Posted by: cleek at February 28, 2004 08:47 PM | PERMALINKThis week’s issue of that commie-pinko, politically correct, elite media rag The Economist editorializes in favor of gay marriage, and reminds us that they first did so back in 1996. Too bad no one at the White House reads this; they might pick up some pointers on fiscal responsibility, too. Posted by: TomF at February 28, 2004 10:08 PM | PERMALINKI visited New Paltz a few months ago as part of my Blogging Across America tour. For even more fun, scroll back a couple entries to the Newburgh entry. Posted by: The Lonewacko Blog at February 28, 2004 10:44 PM | PERMALINKIf you accept that homosexuals are born the way they are, then no position short of full marriage rights is defensible under the prinicples of equal protection. That is the largely ignored crux of the issue, with those opposed to gay marriage seeing it as a "lifestyle choice." A majority of Americans accept gays, yet oppose gay marriage, presumably an the result of some discomfort they have with the idea. They don't want to face the fact that if they accept that a person is gay, not just choosing to be gay, that denying them full rights is blatant discrimination. Posted by: Ramundo at February 28, 2004 10:50 PM | PERMALINKThat is the largely ignored crux of the issue, with those opposed to gay marriage seeing it as a "lifestyle choice." Can we deny Republicans the right to marry on the grounds that Republicanism is a "lifestyle choice"? Christians because Christianity is a "lifestyle choice"? I very rarely eat a complete breakfast—that's a "lifestyle choice", can I be denied the right to marry? I don't think the argument that homosexuality is a choice, even if it weren't complete tripe, washes. Posted by: dak at February 29, 2004 12:04 AM | PERMALINKThe thing is, Reg, there's no law on the books in NY at the moment that specifically prohibits same-sex marriage. NY never passed a state Defense of Marriage Act; there's a proposed one in the legislature, but it's been there for a while without any action and I very much doubt that it will be enacted. (And this failure to enact a DOMA is, I would argue, a democratic expression of the will of the people of NY.) It's true that there's some ambiguous statutory language and lower-court cases that can be cited for the proposition that marriage under NY law is between a man and a woman, but that's not clear-cut, and the NYC bar association actually concluded a few years ago that NY law in fact does not forbid same-sex marriage. So what law is it that you think Spitzer is "blatantly ignoring"? If you can provide a citation or something, I'd be grateful. Posted by: David at February 29, 2004 12:14 AM | PERMALINKReq, what is an "abortion shop" ? Like a garage ? """""The thing is, Reg, there's no law on the books in NY at the moment that specifically prohibits same-sex marriage. NY never passed a state Defense of Marriage Act"""" Well a great big duuhhhhhh. Marriage BY DEFINITION is a union between a man and a women...therefore all the NY laws that say marriage BY DEFINITION mean a man and a women. That is the point. The very definition of the word describes it as a man and a women. That is why everyman and every women can today get married gay or straight- they just have to marry someone of the opposite sex. What you want is a fundamental change to the definition of the word
'marriage' to mean A union between two or more people regardless of You could also start marrying three people together because no where does the law say its only TWO....but the definition of the word itself limits it to two. DUUUHHHHH! Posted by: Keiser at February 29, 2004 02:50 AM | PERMALINKHere is a quote from New Yowk states web site on marriage: """A marriage may not take place in New York State between an ancestor and descendant, a brother and sister,""" Gee, this kind of proves NY considered marriage between a man and a women...otherwise using the gay argument..they would have also restricted a 'brother' and a 'brother' not just a 'bother' and a 'sister'. Please someone write a new definition of marriage if you don't like
it....but just make sure your definition doesn't exclude anyone. More on the NY State law which states: Now thats a sticker one..because I believe the defitions of these
terms might also be exclusionary. Now why did the State limit marriage
to a 'bride' and 'groom' why not two grooms, three brides? Another part of State Law: Ooooppppps...kind of throws the same sex thing a big old no no land in the state of New York. I think we get a pretty good idea that NY State understood the definition of marriage as a union between a man and a women when they wrote their laws... and this form, from the state of new york states clearly A HUSBAND AND A WIFE. http://nycmarriagebureau.com/download/Marriage_Amendment_Form.PDF Posted by: keiser at February 29, 2004 03:16 AM | PERMALINKMore on New york state law: It is required in Ney York the following under law: S 13-d. Duty of clerk issuing marriage license. 1. It shall be the Panties in a twist, keiser? The clue is what the laws exclude, which varies from state to state. Got a loophole? Got gay marriage! The rest of us are scratching our heads, trying to figuring out exactly why this is a bad thing. Color us confused. Posted by: bad Jim at February 29, 2004 03:28 AM | PERMALINKSince you aksed,,,more on New York State law: S 15. Duty of town and city clerks. 1. (a) It shall be the duty of Another big Duhhhh! Marraige has a bride and a groom....go figure. I think my case has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the State of New York recognizes that marriage is the one and only union between a man and women, not anything else....and that he is the one and only Santa Claus...ahh sorry. Posted by: keiser at February 29, 2004 03:32 AM | PERMALINK"""The rest of us are scratching our heads, trying to figuring out exactly why this is a bad thing. """ I simply don't believe we should be making stuff up as we go along. The least the left and right could do is agree that laws actually mean things and you should follow the law or work within the law to get it changed..otherwise what is the sense of having them? What is the mayor of San Francisco going to say when some clerk decides its OK to start handing out gun licenses to everyone who wants one because of the 2nd amendment. Or its OK to fix parking tickets..ooops sorry, SF already got caught doing that one. You can agree with the principal and still disagree with violating the law to reach the goal. But be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. Gays seem to believe that the grass is sooo much greener on the other side of the marriage fence....well they are only looking at the goodies and not the responsibilities. I have yet to hear one activist for gay marriage talk about the honor
of taking on the burden and responsibilitites of marriage..all I hear
them say is what great benefits and advantages you get. No, actually, the primary impetus was the need to be able to be responsible for dying partners. AIDS, remember? Perhaps not. Have you ever encountered a gay in your life? That should be rephrased carefully: are you sure you don't know any gays? Or better: how sure are you that none of the people you know are gay? OTOH, it's a dead cert that People Like That really don't care about anyone but themselves. Does anybody? Posted by: bad Jim at February 29, 2004 04:17 AM | PERMALINKhusband. . .wife. . .What do you call your married gay partner when you introduce him/her? Do we need a new word in the language--or is there one already? I'd like you to meet my spouse doesn't have a nice ring to it. Posted by: sylny at February 29, 2004 04:26 AM | PERMALINKThat doesn't necessarily come up in practice. "I'd like you to meet Bruce" or "I'd like you to meet Barbara" are generally the same gesture. Posted by: bad Jim at February 29, 2004 04:49 AM | PERMALINKBruce, I'd like you to meet Bruce! ... Rule number 3... No poofters! -- Showing my age. Old Monty Python skit. Somehow seemed apropos in these times of denial. Posted by: jeff Boatright at February 29, 2004 05:36 AM | PERMALINK"""No, actually, the primary impetus was the need to be able to be responsible for dying partners. AIDS, remember? Perhaps not.""" Nooo, I was taught not to be a bigot....for your information AIDS is NOT a gay disease. Then why was the first couple to wed in San Francisco two women??? Hmmmmm...is AIDS a Lesbian disease now? I am probably one of the few posters who actually has a relationship with a gay person..my sister, she has two children with her life partner..so quit the crap.
An ode for political meddlers--- With love to lead the way, I've seen more clouds of gray Than any Russian play Could guarantee. Ira Gershwin, 1930 Posted by: Harry 3 Lime at February 29, 2004 05:42 AM | PERMALINKMarriage BY DEFINITION is a union between a man and a women...therefore all the NY laws that say marriage BY DEFINITION mean a man and a women. Keiser, you ignorant troll:
why looky there, trool, the very "DEFINITION" allows for same sex relationships. now run along, it's time for chores. Posted by: cleek at February 29, 2004 05:58 AM | PERMALINKKeiser, Keiser, And, for your information, while AIDS may not be a "lesbian disease" old age, cancer, alzheimers and accident are the eventual fate of all of us: gay, straight, male, female, christian, non-christian and we are all hoping to have family to care for us when we need it. Perhaps your sister and her life partner have some thoughts on that too. aimai Posted by: aimai at February 29, 2004 06:36 AM | PERMALINKMARCH 12, 2004 IS NATIONAL GAY AND LESBIAN WORK STOPPAGE DAY In response to President Bush’s support of an amendment to discriminate against gays and lesbians, March 12, 2004 has been designated as a national gay and lesbian work stoppage day. The point of this act of disobedience is to draw attention to the fact that gays and lesbians are very much part of American society and that they should be treated with equality like all other Americans. Although gays and lesbians work in every facet of the American workforce, the following industries may be heavily impacted on March 10th. TRAVEL INDUSTRY GOVERNMENT MEDIA AND TELECOMMUNICATIONS These are just but a few of the industries that may be impacted by the work stoppage. Once again, these extra-ordinary actions are being called for to draw attention to the fact that millions upon millions of gays and lesbians are citizens of the United States. We urge you to let as many people as you can know about March 12. Posted by: Steve at February 29, 2004 06:39 AM | PERMALINKkeiser- i think by now it should be clear that nearly everyone in fact has a relationship with a gay person. this argument, as so many others these days boils down to science vs. religion. man/woman marriage has been called the "prime, optimum and natural" core relationship of society. but if you look at the history of humankind (you have to accept we
weren't created 4,000 years ago first), homo sapein sapiens has been
here at least 40,000 years. the tribe should and does raise the child. and stop shouting. I don't think the argument that homosexuality is a choice, even if it weren't complete tripe, washes. Neither do I, but believing it is a choice allows people to justify broad discrimination, whereas if you admit that people are born gay, it becomes much harder to rationalize.
Given that nobody is born conservative christian--it is clear beyond peradventure that one's choice of religion is precisely that, a choice one makes to reinforce one's preconceived notions--I guess conservative christians would not object if someone wanted to discriminate against them. Posted by: raj at February 29, 2004 08:44 AM | PERMALINKLike there is no meaningful distinction between the situation with Roy Moore and the New Paltz mayor, and the Republican AG Pryor upheld the law while the Democratic AG Spitzer refused to enforce the law? Or that there would be no difference in local officials illegally closing up abortion shops than local officials issuing illegal marriage licenses There are a dozen meaningful distinctions between Roy Moore and the others. Moore was under an explicit court order. He got to do the fun part of civil disobedience without the full penalty. The officials involved in approving of same-sex marriages aren't technically engaged in civil disobedience. They generally claim to be acting within the law, in particular the "pursuit of happiness" and "equal protection" verbiage in their State Constitutions, perhaps in the light of Lawrence. If they choose to ignore an injunction, they will be liable to penalties for contempt, but so far that hasn't happened. A local official certainly could close an abortion clinic, which would be civil disobedience. There are well-recognized remedies. In that case, it would include civil suits by the owners and clients of the clinics. Analogous suits would be possible against public officials supporting
same-sex marriages, but it would require some specific statement of the
injury to society or the already married. No one on your side has come
up with a cogent statement of the injury. Most of it amounts to
emotional gibberish. """the optimal relationship in society is the tribe. the community. the village. the tribe should and does raise the child. and stop shouting.""" How silly....given your argument gay men should have no say in the
Commmunty, the tribe, the village because they have no off-spring that
has to live with their decisions. --------------------sorry, I was just whispering. Why are people that you say are incapable of producing offspring in their natural state...decising what society heterosexuals children should have to live in??? Given that being gay is genetic, are we not to believe that also includes a different view of children,,,since they cannot produce offspring??
One more for the totally misinformed: """"The officials involved in approving of same-sex marriages aren't technically engaged in civil disobedience. They generally claim to be acting within the law, in particular the "pursuit of happiness" and "equal protection" verbiage in their State Constitutions""" Then there is the actual truth. JUDGE Moore was acting the same....but he had the authority to because he was actually a judge entitled to interpret the State Constitution. The major and clerk are NOT Constutional judges so if they have a problem with a statute before they decide to change the clear meaning- - they need to go to court. Judge Moore claimed he was acting based on the stated clauses in the Georgia Consitution....and he was the only one in a position to actually act in that manner. You are so far off from right, you can't even see it from where your sitting. Posted by: keiser at February 29, 2004 09:00 AM | PERMALINKkeiser: I can get a fishing license and then go fishing with anyone I want, by myself or with a group of people. I can get a driver's license and then go driving with anyone I want, by myself or with a group of people. Why shouldn't a marriage license work the same way? Posted by: i dunno at February 29, 2004 09:19 AM | PERMALINKkeiser at February 29, 2004 09:00 AM
That's nice. One would glean from this that you have never heard of the supremacy clause of the US constitution. Posted by: raj at February 29, 2004 09:33 AM | PERMALINK"""I can get a fishing license and then go fishing with anyone I want, by myself or with a group of people. I can get a driver's license and then go driving with anyone I want, by myself or with a group of people. Why shouldn't a marriage license work the same way?"""" Great argument for why allowing same sex marriages won't devalue marriage. A 'fishing' license forces you to only catch and keep certain fish, you have many rules when it comes to fishing. The license is for you and you alone..the people with you need their own licenses. A driving license has even more rules than fishing...it requires you be an adult, pass a test, be able to see etc. We discriminate against all kinds of people when it comes to driving licenses. Posted by: keiser at February 29, 2004 09:41 AM | PERMALINKare you all relally this dumb. Clearly only Judge Moore had the sworn duty to The Mayor and the clerk are sworn to uphold laws, not interpret or make them. P Posted by: keiser at February 29, 2004 09:43 AM | PERMALINKWow...just...wow.... Do you think that Keiser is really as dumb as he sounds, with that post immediately above? Or is he just a garden-variety troll, saying really stupid things just to get a reaction? Posted by: PaulB at February 29, 2004 09:46 AM | PERMALINKKeiser wrote: "Judge Moore claimed he was acting based on the stated clauses in the Georgia Consitution" I think I just answered my own question. Posted by: PaulB at February 29, 2004 09:48 AM | PERMALINKPaulB, before you wet yourself with joy.
Judges take Oaths to interpret laws based on the Constitutions of the State or the United states. Please go back to school. Of course this all changes if Kerry gets elected, then he will demand we follow the World Court and the UNited Nations instead. Posted by: kesier at February 29, 2004 10:23 AM | PERMALINKYou have beed divided. You have been decieved. Someone held out a carrot to a group, and that ngroup forgot all the other problems, all the other reasons for activism and chased after the carrot biting at the flanks of fellow supporters in haste to get the prize. Get your heads outta your, and see its bigger than this one issue. Its all the issues rolled up into one. So what? You get one carrot when sticking to the guns could get alot more carrots all around. You. Are being used. Posted by: IXLNXS at February 29, 2004 01:46 PM | PERMALINKKeiser wrote: "Learn something about our form of government" Gee, Keiser, given that just about everything you've said on this thread has been dead wrong, I was just about to say the same thing to you. But hey, you keep living in that fantasy world of yours. We'll just keep laughing at you. Posted by: PaulB at February 29, 2004 04:22 PM | PERMALINK"why looky there, trool, the very "DEFINITION" allows for same sex relationships. now run along, it's time for chores." Your knowledge of grammar appears to be a bit weak. M-W's definition *qualifies* the word "marriage" when it's used for a same-sex marriage: "same-sex marriage." In other words, "real" marriage is definition 1, and a specialized, different form is definition 2. As for keiser, he seems to be posting sections of the N.Y. Code. If you've got a problem, take it up with the N.Y. legislature. Now back to you Atriosites. Posted by: The Lonewacko Blog at February 29, 2004 09:31 PM | PERMALINKI am probably one of the few posters who actually has a relationship with a gay person..my sister, she has two children with her life partner..so quit the crap. Good God, Keiser. Assuming you're not just lying, does your sister know you post this kind of disgusting stuff about her online? I sometimes don't get on with my sister, but I don't hate her enough to traduce her in public. You're one sick puppy, kiddo. (And, I suspect, as others have said, you're also about 13 years old. Grow up.) Posted by: Jesurgislac at February 29, 2004 11:55 PM | PERMALINK"""Good God, Keiser. Assuming you're not just lying, does your sister know you post this kind of disgusting stuff about her online?""" No, she probably doesn't, it just hasn't come up. For your info, my sister does not want to get married, she does not believe in 'marriage' and thinks the state should stay out of peoples private lives. She's actually very libertarian..and she doesn't care for two-faced liberal politicians. Posted by: keiser at March 1, 2004 01:55 AM | PERMALINKThe Lonewacko Blog wrote at February 29, 2004 09:31 PM: "why looky there, trool, the very "DEFINITION" allows for same sex relationships. now run along, it's time for chores." No, Lonewacko, you've misread the entry. Here's the link again: marriage. Here's the full definition: 1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same sex marriage> Notice that definition 3 does not require that the phrase "<the marriage of painting and poetry>" be used every time one wants to refer to "an intimate or close union". The phrase in brackets is an example of the meaning, as used in a context, not a required qualification. Likewise, in definition 1 a (1), the phrase "<same-sex marriage>", also in brackets, is an example of the meaning, as used in context, not a required qualification. But I do congratulate you on your first look into a dictionary. At least, from now on, you should know the difference between a definition and an example. Posted by: Raven at March 1, 2004 01:59 AM | PERMALINKNot to start a fight here, and not to do TOO much back-patting, but you take a lot of abuse when you belong to my party, so I'm gonna revel in the teeny, tiny victories when I can get them: Hooray to my fellow Green in New Paltz (Jason West, the mayor) for doing the right thing on this issue! And hooray to all gay-friendly politicians, of all parties, who finally have the forces of discrimination playing defense, instead of offense. This is good. Posted by: Patrick Meighan at March 1, 2004 06:14 AM | PERMALINKNo, she probably doesn't, it just hasn't come up. So you traduce her behind her back? Well, kiddo, I can't wait to find out what happens when she finds out what kind of disgusting bigotry you've been posting about her. I know what big sisters do to their kid brothers... you'll probably be grounded for a month and never get to borrow her Playstation again. But don't believe the stereotypes you hear of gay people..it could lead you down the path of bigotry. Keiser, you've been posting nothing but disgusting bigotry about gay people since the topic came up. So don't try to tell me about it - I'm not the one who's slandering my sister online behind her back. For your info, my sister does not want to get married, she does not believe in 'marriage' and thinks the state should stay out of peoples private lives. But why should I believe someone who'd slander his sister in public? She's actually very libertarian..and she doesn't care for two-faced liberal politicians. But why should I believe someone who'd slander his sister in public? Posted by: Jesurgislac at March 2, 2004 03:15 AM | PERMALINKBREAKING NEWS! Mayor faces charges for marrying gays http://www.newsday.com/news/local/state/ny-stgay0302,0,1055677,print.story?coll=ny-top-span-headlines It's about time! Posted by: Charlie at March 2, 2004 03:31 PM | PERMALINKAtrios wrote at February 29, 2004 06:09 AM: You don't need a marriage license to get married in NY. Specifically, see http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/nycodes/c29/a4.html, section 25: Nothing in this article contained shall be construed to render void by reason of a failure to procure a marriage license any marriage solemnized between persons of full age... The mayor might be prosecuted for performing the marriages
without a license (section 17), but that will still not invalidate the
marriages themselves, and the married couples are not subject to any
penalty under law. ... and somehow I suspect the mayor will be offered help in paying his fines and legal fees.... Posted by: Raven at March 6, 2004 03:01 AM | PERMALINK"The mayor might be prosecuted for performing the marriages without a license (section 17), but that will still not invalidate the marriages themselves, and the married couples are not subject to any penalty under law." And they said there's no "immediate and irreparable harm" ; ) Posted by: Charlie at March 8, 2004 10:15 AM | PERMALINK
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