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February 12, 2004

THE PLOT THICKENS....George Bush's story about his National Guard service in Alabama during 1972 is that he missed a lot of drills but later made them up. And both his ARF retirement record and his pay records confirm that he got credited with duty on October 28-29 and November 11-14, periods when he was in Alabama. What's more, the presidential dental records released last night show that he was in Alabama a short time later, on January 6, 1973.

The problem is that William Turnipseed, the retired general who commanded the unit that Bush had transferred to, the 187th Air National Guard Tactical squadron at Dannelly Air National Guard base, says he doesn't remember ever seeing Bush.

Well, maybe he just forgot? He was probably a busy guy, after all. But Bob Mintz, who was a pilot in the 187th during that period, says that Bush's transfer was the subject of considerable scuttlebutt at the time and they were all eager to get a look at him. According to a story in the Memphis Flyer today, they never did:

Recalls Memphian Mintz, now 63: “I remember that I heard someone was coming to drill with us from Texas. And it was implied that it was somebody with political influence. I was a young bachelor then. I was looking for somebody to prowl around with.” But, says Mintz, that “somebody” -- better known to the world now as the president of the United States -- never showed up at Dannelly in 1972. Nor in 1973, nor at any time that Mintz, a FedEx pilot now and an Eastern Airlines pilot then, when he was a reserve first lieutenant at Dannelly, can remember.

“And I was looking for him,” repeated Mintz, who said that he assumed that Bush “changed his mind and went somewhere else” to do his substitute drill.

“There’s no way we wouldn’t have noticed a strange rooster in the henhouse, especially since we were looking for him,” insists Mintz, who has pored over documents relating to the matter now making their way around the Internet.

....Though some accounts reckon the total personnel component of the 187th as consisting of several hundred, the actual flying squadron – that to which Bush was reassigned – number only “25 to 30 pilots,” Mintz said. “There’s no doubt. I would have heard of him, seen him, whatever.”

Another member of the 187th, Paul Bishop, says the same thing: "I never saw hide nor hair of Mr. Bush."

So if Bush wasn't at Dannelly Air Base, where was he? And what was he getting paid for?

Posted by Kevin Drum at February 12, 2004 03:15 PM | TrackBack


Comments

Bush was elsewhere. And he was being paid for being George W. Bush. It's all he knows how to do.

Posted by: Matt Davis at February 12, 2004 03:24 PM | PERMALINK

As Scooby-doo would say--"ru-roh". ROTFLMAO

McClellen will probably trot out a 1973 receipt from one of Shrub's 'Bama bar tabs next.

Posted by: WyldBill at February 12, 2004 03:25 PM | PERMALINK


As I mentioned in a comment at Atrios, a well-heeled partyboy like Bush is exactly the kind of person who'd make plenty of friends.

Everyone likes a new buddy who can cover your tab because he's stinking rich.

Posted by: Jon H at February 12, 2004 03:25 PM | PERMALINK

And we can be pretty sure Bush didn't arrive at the base in AL and spend all his offduty hours reading the Federal Register or Kierkegaard.

Posted by: Jon H at February 12, 2004 03:27 PM | PERMALINK

Man, I thought we were done with this... he got paid to visit the dentist, a profession quite common in Alabama (not so, the medical profession, that's why The Leader couldn't get his physical)

Posted by: Palo at February 12, 2004 03:27 PM | PERMALINK

OED Word-of-the-Day is... blog

Posted by: aReader at February 12, 2004 03:30 PM | PERMALINK

And we can be pretty sure Bush didn't arrive at the base in AL and spend all his offduty hours reading the Federal Register or Kierkegaard.

Bush Regales Dinner Guests With Impromptu Oratory on Virgil's Minor Works

Posted by: Old Hat at February 12, 2004 03:32 PM | PERMALINK

Who has John Kerry been fucking?

Posted by: Your Song Is Getting Tired, Kevvie at February 12, 2004 03:33 PM | PERMALINK

Who has John Kerry been fucking?

Rove's head.

Posted by: Old Hat at February 12, 2004 03:35 PM | PERMALINK

The Weird World of The Democrat Mind
This is how paranoid and delusional the left is these days. Atrios discusses the Kerry scandal, which was broken to the press by DEMOCRAT GENERAL WESLEY CLARK, and surprise, surprise. Atrios and Hesiod see a Rove plot:

Hesiod notes that something similar was pushed in '92. Anyway, this does sound like a very Roveian smear - the trademark little details which don't quite make sense but have a big titillation factor.
They are insane. And, btw- the name to look for is Chris Lehane.... Kos knows it:

Lehane likely had access to Kerry's internal oppo when he worked for him. Given that Clark was talking about Kerry's "intern problem", it would lend credence to this theory. And like I said, I have independent confirmation that Clark did, indeed, make those comments. And given that these allegations have been circulating for several weeks, it's possible Lehane leaked this hoping it would break sooner. But knowing it was going to explode, why would Clark drop out? It doesn't seem to make sense.
It makes sense to me- you guys don't smear and attack for any particular reason other than vindictiveness, near as I can tell. And Chris Lehane is the prototype of the fighting Democrat that you 'moderates' so adore. Look at your damn rhetoric while you are peddling the Bush military service smear- "Finally- we are taking the fight to them." Look at your glee in Dean, a candidate who claimed that the Bush administration knew about 9/11 in advance. He raiuses these smears, and your limp-wristed response is "Hey- he is at least fighting to get our country back."

Nice to see you guys getting a dose of your own medicine in this tawdry infighting. Funny you think it is surprising and has to come from a Republican- I guess in all of your hero worship you have forgotten Gore's vile race-baiting of Bradley in the last primary season.

*** Update ***

Oliver is drinking the kool-aid too:

I'm sure the timing with Bush's AWOL dodges are purely coincidental and in no way indicative of alliances between the GOP, Drudge and other interested parties.
Is it an unwillingness to admit how dirty Democrats fight, a desire to try to tar the GOP with anythin they can, or just general naivete and foolishness that drive these statements?

Filed under Democrat Stupidity by John Cole at 01:59 PM
| Comments: 9 | TrackBack (0)


John F.....g Kerry
Looks like John F. Kerry is emulating his idol, Kennedy, and his predecessor, Clinton, becuase he appears to now have his own bimbo eruptions.

Based on the evidentiary standards created by the Democrats over the Bush military records story, I hereby proclaim that Kerry is an adulterer.

In order for Kerry to prove his innocence, he must, release records showing where he was, every minute of every day for the past ten years. This shouldn't be too hard- they expect Bush to be able to do this for a period thirty years ago.

Second, everyone on the planet must agree that he is innocent- otherwise the charge still stands, and since it is such a serious charge, we simply can not let it go. Yesterday a reporter asked the Bush/Cheney PR guy: " Does it bother you that these questions have been raised about your candidate?" That really is all that matters- that a question has been 'raised.'

Kerry must also provide several witnesses- people who will attest that the only person he has ever slept with since marrying Heiress #2 was in fact the Heiress. Then he has to take a lie detector test. Then maybe I will believe him slightly- but then I can start a meme that his statements were lies, the lie detector test was doctored, etc.

The Democrats want to play these games. Fine. I have put up with this faux outrage from the Dems for three years, and I have tried to be reasonable. The last two months let me realize what kind of people we are dealing with. Bring it on.

Filed under Democrat Stupidity by John Cole at 01:45 PM
| Comments: 15 | TrackBack (2)


The Building of A Meme
I guess I am a lousy judge of character. I once respected Kevin Drum, and was fooled by his alleged 'moderation.' No more- check out how he is slowly building the meme that Bush's records were doctored. In his initial foray in to the issue, he stated:

Bottom line: Burkett's story might be absolutely true. I don't know. But there are enough red flags that I'm skeptical of it without further backup. In the meantime, caveat emptor.
In the second post, he states:

Overall, then, his story hangs together reasonably well — but whether his story is true is still a judgment call and I think the only way for people to judge the whole thing is to hear it in his own words.
Now, the language has escalated:

... although I was skeptical about this story yesterday, several things have convinced me that Burkett's story is at least believable enough that it deserves wider exposure.
Surprise, surprise. Of course you think it deserves wider exposure- not to mention the shameless self-promotion you are aiming for (we have all noticed how you play your fiddle for the wingnuts and the lurch leftward) because the pathological liars on the left are well aware that all you need to do is make the charge, and keep making the charge, and you will never be called to the mat to provide one shred of evidence. Innuendo, lame asssertion, false truths, and flat-out lies are the staple of the 'moderate' left. You people make me sick.

Filed under Democrat Stupidity by John Cole at 01:37 PM
| Comments: 8 | TrackBack (0)

Posted by: Dig it at February 12, 2004 03:35 PM | PERMALINK

This is just for my curiosity: what makes you favor one unveriable witness over another?

Posted by: Ron at February 12, 2004 03:35 PM | PERMALINK

Who has John Kerry been fucking?

Posted by: t at February 12, 2004 03:36 PM | PERMALINK


George W. Bush: Air Guard Of One

Posted by: Jon H at February 12, 2004 03:36 PM | PERMALINK

JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.

Posted by: TERRY LENZNER IS A GOD at February 12, 2004 03:39 PM | PERMALINK

JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.

Posted by: TL = LOVE at February 12, 2004 03:39 PM | PERMALINK

Carefully read DigIt's post.........hmm...

Sorry, Bush is still a shallow and deceitful fraud.

Please, November, hurry up.

Posted by: marty at February 12, 2004 03:40 PM | PERMALINK


Boy the right wing's gone shrill.

Including John Cole.

Posted by: Jon H at February 12, 2004 03:41 PM | PERMALINK

LOL... It the right wing repuke way.... They throw a lot of blah, blah, blah out and see whats sticks.

Posted by: trumad at February 12, 2004 03:42 PM | PERMALINK

DigIt,

I skipped your screed.

You want a blog? They're free, you know.

Knock yourself out.

But I tend to skip long posts, because they're usually:

A. not topical
B. not very well written
C. boring

YMMV

Posted by: Monkey at February 12, 2004 03:42 PM | PERMALINK

I guess he must have been dealing with the criminal justice system and then later doing community service, after the rehab program./

It took a lot of doing to cover for bush with the military, salvage the honorable discharge, get diversion of the criminal charges and get bush into harvard. But they did it.

His military service would bring shame to most fathers. Imagine how pappy felt. No wonder he hated that kid and never thought he's amount to squat.

Posted by: obe at February 12, 2004 03:43 PM | PERMALINK

...oh gawd, the Confederancy of Dunces is still at it.

The fear that GeeDubya is going to be re-elected is so palpable, I can smell through the ether.

The subtext seems to be, "There's no way we, the irrational hard-core obsessive-compulsive 8% can win, so let's sit around in our circle jerk and comfort each other."

"Ohhh, welcome Monkey-boy..."

"...looking good there Old Fart..."

"...ohhh, harder, faster....ohhhhh...."

But, please, keep flailing away! It is hilarious to watch this descent into less-than- critical mass paranoic delusions:

Alabama commander regrets Bush comments
National Guard boss says he couldn't recall
if president attended meetings

By Jim Cummins
Correspondent
NBC News
Updated: 5:34 p.m. ET Feb. 11, 2004

DALLAS - The flap over President Bush's military service in the Texas Air National Guard really comes down to what he says he did from May 1972 to May 1973 and evidence and recollection from that time. Now, the military officer at the center of the row regrets he ever got involved.

Much of the controversy stems from an article in the "Boston Globe" during the 2000 election when the commander of the Alabama unit of the Air National Guard, Brigadier General William Turnipseed, said he doesn't remember seeing Bush at Air Guard meetings in Alabama at that time.

But, in an NBC News interview this week, the general expressed surprise that his remarks caused such consternation. "George Bush wasn't even famous back then, so why would I notice this outsider showing up at a couple of meetings. I just wouldn't."

The known facts
To really understand the controversy, it's necessary to go back to the beginning and examine who all the players are and how the Air National Guard worked at that time.

George W. Bush was sworn into the Texas Air National Guard on May 27, 1968 during the height of the Vietnam War. He went through all of the basic and advanced flight training and received a commission as a second lieutenant. He then went about his business as a private citizen attending monthly and any other special "camps" for training. Timeline President’s service record

President Bush’s military service has been questioned by Democrats, who claim his family pulled strings to keep him out of Vietnam. Below is a timeline of his National Guard service:

Jan. 19, 1968
Bush completes Air Force officer qualifications test in New Haven, Conn., while attending Yale University.

May 27, 1968
Walter B. Staudt, commander of the Texas National Guard, interviews Bush and recommends he be accepted for pilot training. Bush’s application for enlistment in the Guard is approved.

June 1968
Bush receives bachelor of arts degree from Yale.

July 12, 1968
A three-member Federal Recognition Examining Board reports Bush is qualified for promotion to 2nd Lieutenant in the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron.

July 14, 1968
Bush attends basic military training in San Antonio.

Aug. 25, 1968
Completes basic military training.

Nov. 26, 1968 - Dec. 2, 1969
Attends undergraduate pilot training with the 3559th Student Squadron, Moody Air Force Base, Ga. He is trained to fly standard Air Force aircraft, including the T-31, T-37, and T-39.

Dec. 29, 1969 - Jan. 20, 1970
Trainee, 111th Squadron, Ellington Air Force Base, near Houston.

Jan. 11, 1970
Assigned flying duty as a pilot of F-102 fighter interceptors, 111th Squadron at Ellington.

Aug. 24, 1970
Three-member board recommends 2nd Lt. Bush for promotion to first lieutenant. Bush later receives the promotion.

1971
Participates in drills and alerts at Ellington. Begins work for Houston-based agricultural company.

May 1972
Bush asks for and receives permission to continue his duties in Alabama while he works as political director on the Senate campaign of Winton M. Blount, a friend of his father. Loses flight credentials after missing physical exam.

Sept. 6, 1972
Bush’s request for a three-month transfer to 187th TAC Recon Group, Montgomery, Ala. is approved so he can work as political director for a Senate campaign.

November 1972
Bush returns to his unit at Ellington in Texas.

May-July 1973
Participates in non-flying drills at Ellington. Works at inner-city poverty program earlier in the year.

Sept. 18, 1973
Bush receives permission to transfer to reserve status and is placed on inactive guard duty about six months before six-year commitment ends. Attends Harvard Business School in the fall.

Oct. 1, 1973
Receives honorable discharge.



Source: The Associated Press • Print this

In 1972, then-citizen Bush got a job working on a U.S. Senate campaign in Alabama and he looked into attending Guard meetings with a unit in Montgomery, Ala.

A Lt. Colonel Lott sent Bush a letter informing him when the meetings were scheduled for the Alabama unit in October and November.

The current controversy was ignited by comments from Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe, who charged Bush was absent without leave or AWOL from the Alabama Air National Guard during those 2 months in 1972.

The issue has been resurrected as it now appears the president will probably be running against war-hero Senator John Kerry, if he wins the Democratic nomination.

Brig. Gen. ‘recall’ in 2004

Brigadier Gen. Turnipseed, 75 and retired in Montgomery, Ala., says he's sorry he ever said he would have "had some recall" of Bush had he attended a meeting of the Alabama Air Guard unit.

'No way. He was never assigned to our unit so he couldn't be AWOL. Like so many Guard and Reserve soldiers during the Vietnam War, they moved around and temporarily attended meetings with other units but Bush never left his original unit in Texas.', — Brigadier General Turnsipseed, Feb. 9

"I don't remember whether he came or not. Our unit had about 900- 1,000 men and he could have attended many meetings without me ever knowing it," Turnipseed said this week.

As for Bush being AWOL, Turnipseed said, "No way. He was never assigned to our unit so he couldn't be AWOL. Like so many Guard and Reserve soldiers during the Vietnam War, they moved around and temporarily attended meetings with other units but Bush never left his original unit in Texas.”

Turnipseed has said all along there would be no mention of the president in the Alabama unit since Bush was paid out of Texas.

When asked about Bush’s pay record, Turnipseed said the paymaster in Alabama would note Bush attended a meeting and send the information onto Texas on what he described as an "IBM 105" card where it would be recorded and sent onto payroll in Colorado.

Bush was accused by Democrats of skipping meetings because there was no written record of him attending those meetings in October and November in Alabama.

On Tuesday, the White House released payroll records that showed the president received credit for attending meetings in October and November 1972.

The records don't indicate where he attended those meetings but he was living in Alabama at the time.

As for Turnipseed, he says the crux is that it is really difficult to remember what happened more than 30 years ago.

Jim Cummins is the NBC News Dallas Bureau Chief

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4242877/

Posted by: bubba at February 12, 2004 03:44 PM | PERMALINK

ROFLMAO!

Do I hear "look, look... over there!" desperately coming from your trolls, Kevin?

BTW, where's your guy (Mike K?) that was posting so desperately yesterday that the story was over?

Posted by: Ducktape at February 12, 2004 03:45 PM | PERMALINK

JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.

Posted by: TERRY LENZNER = LOVE at February 12, 2004 03:46 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin Drum,

Why would you link to the four year old comments by General Turnipseed that the general himself claimed were either distorted or based upon [the reporter's] misunderstanding of how the military functioned? (See also here and here for some other sources for the general's recantation of the 2000 misrepresentation you've been hanging your hat on.)

You seem remarkably incurious about following up on or correcting any aspects of your "reporting" that doesn't support your original suppositions. I think you have a better blog (and are yourself a better blogger), when you offer reasoned opinions and substantiated arguments as topics for discussion instead of these rather selectively purused investigative reports.

Posted by: Shad at February 12, 2004 03:46 PM | PERMALINK

Cool. I wonder if the freepers understand just how satisfying it is to see them squirm. At this point, Kerry could screw Babs Bush on the WH lawn in front of the entire press corps and still beat Drinky McStagger.

Keep it coming guys. You have no clue how sweet this is.

Posted by: dasboat at February 12, 2004 03:46 PM | PERMALINK

Andrea Mitchell is smearing Moveon.org on NBC nightly news. It never ends. The whole report was about attack ads but the report doesn't sight one republican group. UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!

Posted by: dfg at February 12, 2004 03:48 PM | PERMALINK

Dig it sez:

"Surprise, surprise. Of course you think it deserves wider exposure- "

Hmmm. So did the NY times, USA Today, LA Times and the WaPo, etc, etc.

They were just behind the dude running this fine site. ;)

Posted by: WyldBill at February 12, 2004 03:49 PM | PERMALINK

Do I hear "look, look... over there!" desperately coming from your trolls, Kevin?

Rest of world: "Ohmygod, its a John Kerry scadal."
Kevin: "Look, look, over there... AWOL! Really! Please keep this story alive"

Posted by: Al at February 12, 2004 03:50 PM | PERMALINK

You seem remarkably incurious about following up on or correcting any aspects of your "reporting" that doesn't support your original suppositions.

You think?

Look, it's Kevin's blog. He can cherry-pick the evidence if he wants to. And it's pretty clear he wants to.

Posted by: Al at February 12, 2004 03:52 PM | PERMALINK

bubba thinks Kevin can't do his own research. that's cute bubba! bend over and let Kerry fuck you.

seriously though get your own blog. they are so easy to create and you can write on them all you want without taking other folks bandwidth.

Posted by: filchyboy at February 12, 2004 03:52 PM | PERMALINK

"May-July 1973
... Works at inner-city poverty program earlier in the year. "

Keep your eye on this piece of the puzzle. It's the next one to catch fire.

Is there anything that would be more out of character for Bush than to work at an inner city poverty program? He could not even be bothered with one weekend a month for TNG, you think he willingly voulnteered to work with troubled inner city negors and mexicans and white trash? Sure he did. It was more important than taking his flight physical even.

Bush worked at the "inner-city poverty program" as community service he had to perform to get out of drug charges. That seems the most likely explanation. Anyway, I can't wait to see this part of the story develop.

Posted by: obe at February 12, 2004 03:53 PM | PERMALINK

Bubba,

Why wouldn't he take a physical?

Oh, and why won't they release the un-blackedout arrest list?

I don't think he was AWOL, I think it's much worse than that.

I think he rendered himself unfit for flight duty (which we paid A LOT for) by doing drugs.

Granted, I don't have proof, but there's a lot of smoke there.

A. Rumors abounded about his cocaine use.
B. He himself said, that AFTER 1974, he could have "gotten a security clearance".
C. He did what seems awfully close to community service ONCE, and NEVER again.
D. He won't reveal why he didn't take the physical, the year they started drug testing.

I've had people work for me. If they won't take a piss test, I have a pretty clear idea why.

The Republicans on this board don't seem to care that he might have rendered himself unfit for the flight duty we paid for. I find that amazing, since they're USUALLY so tough on suspected drug abusers.

Posted by: Monkey at February 12, 2004 03:53 PM | PERMALINK

"Jeez, all I wan't to know is who is Kerry fucking, and how much she charged?"

Try that one, guys.

Posted by: Yap at February 12, 2004 03:53 PM | PERMALINK

The swamp fever really has this place in a grip. First the lies about Turnipseed's comments (he says he doesn't even know if HE was on the base at that time, much less Bush) NOW the "story" from two men who admit disliking Bush, who magically come forward NOW to say that on a base of over 800 people it's important that THEY don't remember seeing Bush.

Pathetic. I have no doubt we could dig up two or more Clinton haters who could swear they helped him (or, as is popular now, here, claim they overheard Clinton discussing) kill Vince Foster, Ron Brown and the Easter Bunny.

The echo chamber grows louder, the dementia stronger.....

Posted by: Stan at February 12, 2004 03:53 PM | PERMALINK

"November 1972
Bush returns to his unit at Ellington in Texas."

Then why was he getting his teeth cleaned in Alabama in January 1973?

Answer me that, trolls.

Posted by: Jon H at February 12, 2004 03:53 PM | PERMALINK

Image the conversation in kitchen across the country.

Bbbringg:

"Hello."

"Yes, is this Lt. Art Foneman who served in the Alabama Air National Guard at Dannelly AFB in 1972?"

"Who is this?"

"Who I am is not important. What is important is that you love your country. Do you Love your Country?"

"Yes. Yes I do."

"Good, I thought so. If you didn't then I'd have to have a conversation with your daughter Mary who is with me right now. Say hello to your father."

"Dad? Dad is that you? I'm scared. Then picked me up and said that you were in trouble. I'm in a trailer somewhere and they say that only you can help them. What do they want?"

"Mr. Foneman, your daughter has a very pretty blonde head. I'm sure you will like to see it again. Intact. Now will you help us?"

"Help you with what?"

"All you have to do is tell the media the truth. That you saw George W. Bush in Alabama in 1972."

"But I don't remember! I can't remember something that happened 31 years ago!"

"I'm sure that for Mary's sake you can remember a little something now can't you? I mean it was a BIG base, lots of white men coming and going. I'm sure you saw him."

"Uh Yeah, now that I think about it I'm SURE I saw him. He even gave me a nickname. Um Old Fonehead he used to call me. And we used to go drinking together."

"Now you are getting the picture. See how it all comes back? Now I want you to memorize these dates and times exactly as I'm going to list them. These are the dates you remember seeing George W. Bush."

"Okay, I'm writing this down."

"No! Do not write it down! This conversation NEVER happened. I want you to eat that paper NOW. DO YOU HEAR ME SOLIDER!"

"YES SIR! I’m , sorry. SIR!" (gulp)

"Remember, your country is very grateful for your service and we wouldn't want anything to happen to you, your blonde haired daughter or your Brown Ford pickup truck parked in your driveway with the license plate 2CVH088, now would we?"

Posted by: spocko at February 12, 2004 03:55 PM | PERMALINK

Woah, now, shitheels.

The word from the cunning planners of the RNC now is that George W. Bush spent 1972 and 1973

high

in the air over the Gulf of Mexico

Shooting down un-manned aerial vehicles

piloted by the evil one himself

while masturbating

into the (at that time) empty skull

of Karl Rove.

Rove was created from

the semen of George W. Bush

and the earth slept.

Slept.

Then, of course,

SHAD appeared to wreak vengeance.

Pity SHAD. Pity Rove. Pity George W. Bush, the evil little troll.

Posted by: Baldrick at February 12, 2004 03:56 PM | PERMALINK

From Bush's loss of flying status should have spurred probe

At yesterday's press briefing, McClellan accused those who continue to question the president's National Guard service of "gutter politics" and "trolling for trash" in a political campaign season.

Asked if the same was true in 1992 when Bush's father criticized Governor Bill Clinton for not releasing his military records, stoking the controversy around Clinton's active avoidance of the Vietnam War draft by calling him "Slick Willie," McLellan replied, "I think that you expect the garbage can to be thrown at you in the 11th hour of a campaign, but not nine months before Election Day."

Wow, I missed the scheduling memo.

Posted by: karog at February 12, 2004 03:57 PM | PERMALINK

Nah, it would never happen.

Posted by: spocko at February 12, 2004 03:57 PM | PERMALINK

Shad,

He was clearing brush at the far end of the flight line.

Had to be, because Clinton had the franchise on all the "correctly reported" naughty stuff like smuggling Latin American drugs, raping white women and fathering mocha-skinned babies. That is when he wasn't sympathising with commies and wondering how he would bump off his wife's lesbian lovers after plotting to disappear 15 or so friends like Vince Foster.

Posted by: fouro at February 12, 2004 03:58 PM | PERMALINK

Ya know trolls, Bush could solve all of this if he would just do as he promised and released all of his service record.

Why won't Bush keep his promise?

What is he afraid of?

Posted by: Dominion at February 12, 2004 03:58 PM | PERMALINK

"Dig it", you're right, pal Kevin's lost his mind. It's not just that he's buying into the tinfoil hat theory du joir, it's that it's obvious now he can't be counted on to bring honesty to the discussion. His linking to old and uncorrected comments by Gen. Turnipseed is a classic.

Are there any non-lunatic Democrat blogs left, or have they all joined Kevin and the likes of Democrat.com? Is Mickey Kaus going to have to carry the entire burden of rational discussion for them?

Posted by: Stan at February 12, 2004 03:59 PM | PERMALINK

Oh my - bubba posts all that long stuff, and that Turnipseed now says that GWB was never transferred to his outfit, so he couldn't have been AWOL from it.

Which is soooo interesting, since the Bushies have said that he was transferred there - which was why they didn't see him in Texas.

If y'all want to sing in harmony, it would help if you stayed on the same page of the sheet music.

Posted by: Ducktape at February 12, 2004 03:59 PM | PERMALINK

Chris Matthews is about to interview Burkett on Hardball.

Posted by: Tuna at February 12, 2004 04:00 PM | PERMALINK

Jeebus Kevin, can't you get a copy of Atrios' troll-filter? These clowns aren't irritating because sophistry, self-interest and irrationality aren't irritating - just endlessly boring. One wishes to confine them to their own pen, at least until they recover.

So dull.

Posted by: GWPDA at February 12, 2004 04:01 PM | PERMALINK

Well, it is consistent with him not being allowed to fly and being given some desk duty though, isn't it? I mean, this was after he was suspended from flying.

Posted by: Gary at February 12, 2004 04:01 PM | PERMALINK

Of course, Stan, one might conclude that you and digit are out of YOUR minds, given that sanity can be somewhat socially defined. Most of us here think that George Bush is a walking, lying disaster for our country. The reasons are well documented. Perhaps you should open your mind to the possibility that you are wrong...

Posted by: fear is the mind killer at February 12, 2004 04:02 PM | PERMALINK

Some interesting facts for those of you who still haven't gotten over the 2000 election:

Source: Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota:

     Population of counties won by:
     Gore=127 million
     Bush=143 million

     Square miles of land won by:
     Gore=580,000
     Bush=2,2427,000

     States won by:
     Gore=19
     Bush=29

     Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
     Gore=13.2
     Bush=2.1

Posted by: Ben at February 12, 2004 04:07 PM | PERMALINK

What a waste of a thread. There isn't anything new to say about this, yet Kevin keeps posting stuff thats already been in the news for awhile, and flames keep burning hotter in the comments. Nothing worth spending even 2 minutes reading.

Sorry KD, you jumped the shark this week. Blogs going downhill. Be back in a while to see if things pick up.

Posted by: Reg at February 12, 2004 04:08 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin,
You will believe ANYTHING that makes Bush look bad. How old are you? You look about 50 but you've got the mentality of a 5 year old. You don't remember people you saw 5 times 30 years ago unless something drastic happened to them 30 years ago.

Bush was nobody until his father ran for President. Most people don't know their own congressman's name but these yokels knew Bush the Elder from Houston. Not one in 100 Americans know the name of the head of the RNC or the UN Ambassador.

Posted by: OyGevalt at February 12, 2004 04:11 PM | PERMALINK

Ben -

The book you borrowed, "Make An Ass of Yourself With Statistics," is overdue.

Posted by: Librarian at February 12, 2004 04:13 PM | PERMALINK

unelected fraud

won't release his records ?

Answer in question.

Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 04:16 PM | PERMALINK

John Cole?

Juan Troll

What the hells the difference?

Posted by: SW at February 12, 2004 04:16 PM | PERMALINK

Jeebus, the trolls are coming unhinged, Colin Powell's losing it, what next?

They can feel the whole house of cards crashing down around them, and at the worst possible time:

Just as a new leader begins to emerge (looks like Kerry at this point).

I've never understood the irrational attachment so many people have for Bush, but I suspect it has a lot to do with "he's the only president we've got".

That's changing.

Welcome to the margins, trolls.

Posted by: Sovok at February 12, 2004 04:18 PM | PERMALINK

Funny how the troll up thread has the same fake email address but five names.

When someone like Turnipseed changes his story, and their are obvious reasons to change your story, I tend to believe the first story they tell. I especially like how he says why would he remember this guy from anyone else? Could it be he was the son of a two term Congressman that ran for a Texas Senate seat twice? Could it be that he was the son of the Ambassador to the United Nations at the time in question, 1972?

Posted by: chris/tx at February 12, 2004 04:18 PM | PERMALINK

W AWOL
fly on wing, nuts!
TANG, you're it.

Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 04:20 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin,

A suggestion for dealing with the troll epidemic that is currently infesting your site: Create a separate folder for them on your page. When they come in, just shift them into the "shit bin" and let them fester in their collective bile. Anyone with nothing better to do can read them if they choose, but it spares the rest of us the dismal experience of having to slog through the trash.

Keep up the good work...

Posted by: peter jung at February 12, 2004 04:20 PM | PERMALINK

You see this really sums up the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Their boy is proven to be a liar and a hypocrite. A callow arm-chair warrior who orders the deaths of thousands of people with no understanding of what that means. And they want to talk about someone getting laid! How typical. How completely self defeating. They tried that crap for eight years with Clinton and he left the White House substantially more popular than this president is today. So, they think they can drag out that same tired act, an act that essentially disgusted the country and the people won't turn against them? Guess again Juan. The Kerry getting laid gossip is going to hurt, you guessed it, George Bush. So crank it up a notch troll. You are right with the program.

Posted by: SW at February 12, 2004 04:22 PM | PERMALINK

The Long Redacted Tale
(where is Marianne Faithfull when you need her?)

Thirty years ago, give or take a year or two
There was some guy given a cushy job to do
Sent off to ‘Bama, where the folks all agreed
Of all the men there none looked like he.

The truth of his life is a redacted tale
His story is a sham where the truth is pale
Nobody know, no, nobody sees
Nobody knows but Georgie….

The Press said, "Son, where did you fly?
Were you where you said or was that just a lie?"
Bush spoke not a word that made any sense
He lives in the present but in the past he is tense.

The truth of his life is a redacted tale
His story is a sham where the truth is pale
Nobody know, no, nobody sees
Nobody knows but Georgie….

The election draws nigh and history calls
He thinks of his life as he covers up his balls
But sometime in the dark, when the ghosts all appear
The Worst President Ever will have to face his fears.

The truth of his life is a redacted tale
His story is a sham where the truth is pale
Nobody know, no, nobody sees
Nobody knows but Georgie….

Nobody knows but Georgie…

***

Posted by: MJS at February 12, 2004 04:22 PM | PERMALINK

Well, Burkett just confirmed everything on Hardball. Completely stood by his story, and swore to the public and God. (Burkett is a preacher's son, and claimed that he spoke with another preacher's son about this in 1997.)

Matthews also made a plea to anybody that served with Bush in Alabama to contact the media and tell their story.

If all of the permanent records are stored out-of-state, destroying copies in Texas would've only served the purpose of keeping information from Karen Hughes when she was writing her biography. I guess. Who knows what's going on here.

Posted by: Tuna at February 12, 2004 04:23 PM | PERMALINK

I like the comment above about GHWB being a nobody in 1972. Oh yeah, Senate races from Texas get no national coverage. We were having a little war in SE Asia about that time, and Bush was frequently on the national news making speeches at the UN. He was being mentioned for all kinds of prominent positions in Washington. His father was somewhat of a legend in his own time like Sam Rayburn, yeah, he was a real nobody.

Posted by: chris/tx at February 12, 2004 04:25 PM | PERMALINK

Ben,

Gosh, that's funny. You might want to look at the federal dollars the Red and Blue states receive in pork.

It might open your eyes as to who is sucking at the public teat more.

Posted by: Monkey at February 12, 2004 04:26 PM | PERMALINK

"Well, it is consistent with him not being allowed to fly and being given some desk duty though, isn't it? I mean, this was after he was suspended from flying."

Actually, a 1st LT with wings stuck on a desk would probably attract even *more* attention.

As in, "why is that pilot from Texas doing paperwork?".

Posted by: Jon H at February 12, 2004 04:26 PM | PERMALINK

Wow, don't you trolls understand that anger isn't going to win the election in November?

Voters want solutions and optimism about the future, not long rants filled with swear-words and whining.

Posted by: praktike at February 12, 2004 04:28 PM | PERMALINK

House,
Built of Cards.
Wind.

My apologies, the haikus are to relax us all.

I am not a troll.

Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 04:28 PM | PERMALINK

To quote Colin Powell,

"I won't dignify your comments about the President, because you don't know what you're talking about."

Which applies to most of you posting on the right and the left.

What unreleased military records are y'all talking about? Tell me what forms and records with a retention record of over 30 years are you waiting for?

And to the claim of a coke-head Bush avoiding a physical. Do you how long cocaine can be detected by drug screening? Do you know how the military tests for illicit drugs? I know the answers, but it's apparent that many of you don't.

Finally, what about the overpaid Eastern airlines pricks who are the sources of this story, and blame GHW Bush for the fall of Eastern instead of Carter (who did a GOOD thing for the rest of us by deregulating the airlines). You know the ones that Bush, who flew a "slightly different aircraft than the F4 Phantom jets flown by the squadron, and "opted not to fly with the unit" should have run into. Yeah, reading their story, they don't have an axe to grind. BTW, if you don't laugh out loud when you read those above quotes, you don't know jack about airplanes, the Air Force and the military in general.

Posted by: JFH at February 12, 2004 04:29 PM | PERMALINK


Another thing that comes to mind - if the Alabama unit wasn't flying the same kind of plane as Bush's Texas unit, I'd expect a certain amount of shop talk, with the Alabamans wanting to know about the kind of plane Bush flew, its handling characteristics, etc.

If the Alabama unit wasn't flying fighter jets, and Bush showed up as a fighter pilot from Texas, he'd probably get a lot of attention.

Posted by: Jon H at February 12, 2004 04:29 PM | PERMALINK

The constant sniffling coming from the pilot's desk, frequent trips to the men's room, long lunches, and "friends" dropping by at all time would have eventually alerted them why he wasn't flying.

Posted by: John Dillinger at February 12, 2004 04:30 PM | PERMALINK

Since W. wasn't fit to fly when he was in Alabama, what would he have done with this squadron anyhow? Wave goodbye on the tarmac?

Posted by: Tom Hoffman at February 12, 2004 04:30 PM | PERMALINK

Source: Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota:

I know this is a troll comment, but anyone that's interested in the truth about it can go to Snopes. Suffice to say, the murder rate part is spectacularly wrong.

Posted by: Chris at February 12, 2004 04:30 PM | PERMALINK

Wow! This topic sure makes the right-wing kooks froth at the mouth.

Keep up the good work Kevin!!

Posted by: Mike at February 12, 2004 04:31 PM | PERMALINK

A leopard does not change his spots (though Bush is far from being anything cat like)

He was a liar then, he is a liar now and he is NOT fit to run this country... unless running this country into the ground counts.

He thinks sends American jobs overseas is a good thing. "Labor Department said initial claims for jobless benefits unexpectedly rose last week by 6,000 to 363,000, confounding analysts, who had predicted an improving job market and expected a dip to 345,000 new claims."

He promised to release all his files... now stand by your word mister President.

Posted by: Poz at February 12, 2004 04:32 PM | PERMALINK

I enjoy reading the troll comments to confirm time and time again how right I am and how wrong they are.

Thanks, kids!

Posted by: Old Hat at February 12, 2004 04:33 PM | PERMALINK

Keep up the good work Kevin. I feel like I have been watching history happen this week.

The heat of the flames tells me that you are close to touching the source of the fear.

Bush can lie through the press, but he better be sure his answers line up. Did "everything" mean everything? What words of our Great Leader should we just ignore, or what should we reinterpret, ... or should we just shut up and wave our flags during the parade and don't ask questions ...

Posted by: ch_noir at February 12, 2004 04:34 PM | PERMALINK

Answering myself... W. wasn't suspended from flying on August 1st '72, so he would have still been eligible.

Posted by: Tom Hoffman at February 12, 2004 04:34 PM | PERMALINK

"You don't remember people you saw 5 times 30 years ago unless something drastic happened to them 30 years ago. Bush was nobody until his father ran for President. "

Brilliant observation, but you're forgetting that Bush's father first ran for president **in 1980**. His campaign was in full swing by the Fall of '79, a mere six years after he was (errrr.... should have been :) in Alabama.

Plus his father was a sitting US congressman when Bush was (errrr... should have been) in Alabama, and he was (errrr.... is said to have been) the assistant campaign manager for a candidate for the US Senate in the state. All this may not add up to Britney Spears' level fame, but makes him unusual enough that it's hard to believe no one from the guard unit can come forward and attest to Bush's presence there.

Look, I'm one of those who thinks that what Bush did as a 22 year old kid isn't particularly important at this late date, but how he's handling the issue now just makes it look worse. He should release the full records as he promised.

And his rabid defenders --- what was the name of the congressman who supported Nixon who said, "don't try to confuse me with the facts?" --- should come up with lines of argument that small children can't disprove.

Posted by: cogito at February 12, 2004 04:37 PM | PERMALINK

The reason for the shrillness is quite clear.

For the last four years, the Media Whore-Rethuglican Industrial Complex has done everything humanely possible to prop up this manifestly unfit, amoral, lowlife of a man. It worked for a while, but it appears the people are finally starting to add it all up, that the man they once respected is really no more honest nor decent than the three-card monte player they can see outside a porn video store in any city in America.

The death spiral has begun and everyone is running for the exits. The fun is officially over in Chimpyland and the folks on K Street are going to want answers after the 3-day weekend.

The People Have Finally Woken Up and realized:

BUSH IS A MISERABLE FAILURE

=====================================

Majority of Americans Doubt Bush's WMD Claims
Support for President Bush Drops to 50 Percent in Latest Post-ABC News Poll

By Richard Morin and Dana Milbank
Washington Post Staff Writers

Most Americans believe President Bush either lied or deliberately exaggerated evidence that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction in order to justify war, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

Posted by: Hank Essay at February 12, 2004 04:37 PM | PERMALINK

Coke lasts about a day for a piss test, AFAIK.

So he was doing lines the night before his physical?

Par for the course, wouldn't you say?

Posted by: Yap at February 12, 2004 04:41 PM | PERMALINK

Make sure you catch the beginning of Hardball: Lt. Col. Bill Burkett (ret.) knocks it out of the park!

Posted by: BudMan at February 12, 2004 04:44 PM | PERMALINK

So this is where all the trolls have gone!

Remember, Kevin: the closer you are to the mark, the sooner a moronic brownshirt fuck will appear.

You're hitting the bullseye...

Posted by: dave1021 at February 12, 2004 04:45 PM | PERMALINK

Whoops, my mistake, in late 72 and 73 Bush senior WAS NOT a sitting US Congressman. Instead, he was (from his own web site)

1. Permanent Ambassador to the UN
2. President of the Republican Party
3. On the verge of being named ambassador to China
(for those of you who aren't up on geography, this is a large country in Asia with a really really lot of people)

Again, the thought that no one would remember GWB because "he was a nobody" is farcical.

Posted by: cogito at February 12, 2004 04:46 PM | PERMALINK

Yap writes: "Coke lasts about a day for a piss test, AFAIK."

Was this as well-known in 1972?

Also, do they test for pot, and if so how long does that last?

Posted by: Jon H at February 12, 2004 04:48 PM | PERMALINK

And for those of you who still think that the WH does not follow the traits of the Pres....

"More than 11,000 medical evacuees have come through Andrews in the past nine months, the Air Force says.

Most, we suspect, from Iraq. But that's 8,000 more than the Pentagon says have been wounded there."

Did someone say Bush misplaced his calculator???

Posted by: Poz at February 12, 2004 04:49 PM | PERMALINK

A READER ASKS: "DOES THIS KERRY STORY HAVE LEGS?"

ANSWER MAN SAYS: FUCK YEAH, IT'S GOT LEGS. AND LONG BLOND HAIR. AND FIRM TITS. AND THE SWEETEST LITTLE PUSSY, WHICH SENATOR-MARRY RICH HAS BEEN BANGING THE HELL OUT OF FOR SOME TIME NOW.

--THANK YOU.

Posted by: TERRY LENZNER = GOD at February 12, 2004 04:50 PM | PERMALINK

'No way. He was never assigned to our unit so he couldn't be AWOL. Like so many Guard and Reserve soldiers during the Vietnam War, they moved around and temporarily attended meetings with other units but Bush never left his original unit in Texas.', — Brigadier General Turnsipseed, Feb. 9


Then why did he fly from Texas to have a dentist in Alabama check his teeth after he had supposedly returned to Houston?????

Curiouser and curiouser....

Posted by: Tommyd at February 12, 2004 04:51 PM | PERMALINK

Hey Ben...

You guys are hysterical...go over to snopes.com and see what they have to say about your Prof. Joseph Olsen stats.

Posted by: whynot at February 12, 2004 04:54 PM | PERMALINK

Do you how long cocaine can be detected by drug screening? Do you know how the military tests for illicit drugs? I know the answers, but it's apparent that many of you don't.

JFH,

Cocaine can be detected for about a week after use, depending on the method. I believe they were doing urinalysis testing at that time.

Are you saying Lt. Bush would have been able to draw upon his vast medical knowledge and scoffed at a piss test? HE wouldn't have neccessarily known anything other than that they wanted to test his piss for drugs. He could have been smoking pot as well (drug users often do), and that's detectable for much longer than Cocaine is.

He might have been scared shitless about taking the test, and decided not to, hoping to skate by and get clean before they forced him to take it.

Your argument from authority is defeated. Score one for basic Critical Thinking 101.


Posted by: Monkey at February 12, 2004 04:54 PM | PERMALINK

Jon, I dunno about what was known about the tests in 72, pot lasts between a week and a month in a piss test, depending on how much he smoked and for how long.

Posted by: Yap at February 12, 2004 04:54 PM | PERMALINK

Yap: "depending on how much he smoked "

That would be "all of it".

Posted by: Jon H at February 12, 2004 04:55 PM | PERMALINK

It's clear that the Kerry story is a godsend for Terry Lenzer and the other trolls whose pages of the Starr Report are not all stuck together.

Posted by: John Dillinger at February 12, 2004 04:55 PM | PERMALINK

Not the first or last time I've said this, but the way Republicans stick up for Bush is like watching a prostitute knife a guy for trying to stop her pimp from beating her -- they don't even demonstrate the basic sense to speak in their own self-interest.

Posted by: Mike at February 12, 2004 04:56 PM | PERMALINK

A READER ASKS: "DOES THIS KERRY STORY HAVE LEGS?"

ANSWER MAN SAYS: FUCK YEAH, IT'S GOT LEGS. AND LONG BLOND HAIR. AND FIRM TITS. AND THE SWEETEST LITTLE PUSSY, WHICH SENATOR-MARRY RICH HAS BEEN BANGING THE HELL OUT OF FOR SOME TIME NOW.

--THANK YOU.

Posted by: W at February 12, 2004 04:56 PM | PERMALINK

The reason for the feeding frenzy is the panic, the defensive and the inconsistency of reports coming from the White House. Instead of this being a story about how many drill W. missed, everyone with half a brain---and even some Freepers too---know that something bigger is hidden. I'll put my two cents in: isn't anyone convicted of a felony ineligible to be President?
The TANG records probably indicate that W. was convicted of a felony at some point. That is the big secret.

Posted by: marky at February 12, 2004 04:56 PM | PERMALINK

...why don't the other member's of GeeDubya's unit come forward to vouch for him?

Because the DNC and MOVEON.ORG death squads have already silenced them!

Now then, you cirle-jerking Brown-shirts simians, prove this isn't true!

BWAHAHAHA! BWAHAHAHA! BWAHAHAHA! BWAHAHAHA!

Posted by: bubba at February 12, 2004 04:56 PM | PERMALINK

"Are you saying Lt. Bush would have been able to draw upon his vast medical knowledge and scoffed at a piss test? HE wouldn't have neccessarily known anything other than that they wanted to test his piss for drugs. He could have been smoking pot as well (drug users often do), and that's detectable for much longer than Cocaine is.

He might have been scared shitless about taking the test, and decided not to, hoping to skate by and get clean before they forced him to take it."

Plus he'd probably be a little paranoid.

AND, it'd kinda suck if a prominent member of Blount's campaign staff, a son of a prominent national Republican, got busted in a medical for drug use, and it got out into the press.

Posted by: Jon H at February 12, 2004 05:00 PM | PERMALINK

Drug test info was off the top of my head, facts for those interested...

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/testing/testing_info1.shtml

Posted by: Yap at February 12, 2004 05:02 PM | PERMALINK

bubba, lol.

We should be glad the trolls and brownshirts are posting here instead of being outdoors burning crosses.

Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 05:05 PM | PERMALINK

what's wrong with marrying rich? what other reason is there? lol. i can just imagine how some of you right-wing knuckleheads married. fat, toothless and the brain of a bush. lol.

Posted by: tim at February 12, 2004 05:08 PM | PERMALINK

... or raping 16yo's into having abortions.

Posted by: Yap at February 12, 2004 05:09 PM | PERMALINK

Good point, cogito (coquito?)! Quick:

Who's the current ambassador to the UN?
Who's the current President of the Republican Party?
Who's the current ambassador to China (you know the large country with a lot people)?

I could only answer one of these without looking it up, and the world in '72 was not nearly as politically conscious as it is now and had far less resources (e.g. cable and the internet) to get info.

To the rest of you, yeah, okay I'm a troll and I'm VERY, VERY worried that y'all are getting too close to the truth... whatever makes you feel better, fine with me.

Posted by: JFH at February 12, 2004 05:10 PM | PERMALINK

Just an aside from a long-time regular poster here at Calpundit, to others:

Aren't you waxing nostalgic for the days when "Al" was bull goose looney in these comments pages? I never realized what a high-level of wingnuttery that man practiced until this week.

Posted by: Brian C.B. at February 12, 2004 05:10 PM | PERMALINK

Who IS the current president of the republican party?

Ed Gillespie???

Posted by: Yap at February 12, 2004 05:13 PM | PERMALINK

This sure seems relevant:

Bush reportedly claimed to have been working for Project P.U.L.L. (some sort of community service center) in Houston for part of 1972, possibly (or not) as part of a sentence in a drunk driving or cocaine conviction.

Where does this fit in the timeline?

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/10/18/cocaine/

Posted by: FSF at February 12, 2004 05:15 PM | PERMALINK

I love trivia:

thanks JFH

Who's the current ambassador to the UN?
Negroponte.

Who's the current President of the Republican Party?
trick question, it's a chairman: Ed Gillepsie.

Who's the current ambassador to China (you know the large country with a lot people)?
Randt (the only one you have to look)

Note that I am NOT in politics, nor the head of a military base.

When Mc Greevey (our NJ gov) comes to a gym near me, everybody knows (even the most politically deaf).

I'm feeling like Reagan, What was the point again ?

Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 05:17 PM | PERMALINK

Atrios trolls... old and busted

Calpundit trolls... new hotness!

Posted by: Gryn at February 12, 2004 05:18 PM | PERMALINK

"Source: Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota"

I know this is a troll comment, but anyone that's interested in the truth about it can go to Snopes. Suffice to say, the murder rate part is spectacularly wrong.

Yep, the rest is true but not the murder rate part. http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.asp

Posted by: Hamilton Lovecraft at February 12, 2004 05:18 PM | PERMALINK

WHO WAS GWB FUCKKING?
She stops short of claiming a great romance with the governor. "It was simply sex," she says. "It was the cheapest relationship you can imagine."

Posted by: frothing freeper at February 12, 2004 05:21 PM | PERMALINK

Ya know, I used to come to calpundit exclusively for the comments section, because even with Al being Al, and Charlie being Charlie, it was still reasonably well-heeled, that is until Kev got a link from Slate.

Sorry about that, Kevin.

Posted by: ChrisS at February 12, 2004 05:25 PM | PERMALINK

Aren't you waxing nostalgic for the days when "Al" was bull goose looney in these comments pages? I never realized what a high-level of wingnuttery that man practiced until this week.

Woo-hoo! What a reputation I have!

Hasn't stopped my stalker from continuing to impersonate me, though.

Posted by: Al at February 12, 2004 05:25 PM | PERMALINK

The Republican defense may be banal---nobody would ever accuse any of these guys of being Victor Hugo---but that's probably because believing in Bush totally is not worth the effort. None of these sporadic rationalizations have nearly the faith or the wild and wooly passion that Nixon was accorded by half of the Watergate committee; they are more flippant, superficial, half-hearted, as if Bush is undeserving of more mature and persuasive commitments. It's evidently still true that lost causes attract the least qualified to fight them.


Posted by: Sam Spade at February 12, 2004 05:26 PM | PERMALINK

paula zahn talking to burkett.
bush is absolutly cooked. dead meat.

Posted by: ish at February 12, 2004 05:31 PM | PERMALINK

It's pretty obvious who is making the mess here. The company you keep says volumes. Hope mommy takes away the computer soon because these freepers are messy. And their socks stink.

Posted by: tom p at February 12, 2004 05:32 PM | PERMALINK

Ben seems as uninquisitive as his President. Here are some stats to show why his stats are completely meaningless.

1. Population of the States won in 2000:
Bush 124,228,637
Gore 136,653,898

2. Just three Bush states constitute over 1 million square miles Texas, Alaska, and Montana. And, Gore won 8 of the 9 geographically smallest states. How could square mileage mean anything at all? Apparently, Ben and his esteemed professor have never heard of standard deviation.

3. And, if Ben's murder rate statistic is important, then why not the child beater statistic. In 63% of the states that Bush won, it is legal for a teacher to beat a child. While in 85% of the states that Gore won it is illegal. Child beaters were more likely to vote for Bush. See, you can show just about anything with statisticsn Ben.

Posted by: Kop at February 12, 2004 05:34 PM | PERMALINK

Bush wasa such a nobody while in the Guard that while still in flight school in....

November 1969:
Bush is flown to the White House by President Nixon for a date with daughter Tricia.

I'm sure no one in the Guard knew about that. How could they? Nixon was barely known.

Posted by: obe at February 12, 2004 05:35 PM | PERMALINK

Bush:

"I'm an all night drug-prowling wolf
Who looks so sick in the sun
I'm the white man in the Palais
Just lookin' for fun"

... he was a fun-loving criminal who liked to ball the the President's daughter and do lines of coke in various johns in the deep South while working for race-baiting Senate campaigns, and generally just being a fuck-up in the "charming" manner only those with very large trust funds can get away with. At least that is what I think ...

The Texas Souffle. Indeed.

Posted by: Joe Strummer at February 12, 2004 05:35 PM | PERMALINK

When Mc Greevey (our NJ gov) comes to a gym near me, everybody knows (even the most politically deaf).

That's very interesting and, if the person who was supposed to show up at the base in Alabama was George H.W. Bush, then might be relevent. But as the person who was supposed to show up there was not George H.W. Bush, but rather George W. Bush, it is completely irrelevent.

Let me know if Gov. McGreevey's SON showed up at your gym 5 or 6 times - THIRTY YEARS AGO - and then it might be relevent.

As a comparison, I went to law school with the son of a Senator. Now, although my law school class was quite large, it was divided up into sections, and this Senator's son was in my section. It took from September until FEBRUARY for me to find out he was a Senator's son. And that's with me seeing him in class virtually every day.

Sorry, it just is not apparent that everyone would remember Bush simply because he was the son of the UN ambassador, since he only had to show up on base a few times.

Posted by: Al at February 12, 2004 05:36 PM | PERMALINK

Ben wrote:
Some interesting facts for those of you who still haven't gotten over the 2000 election:
Source: Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota:
Population of counties won by:
Gore=127 million
Bush=143 million
Square miles of land won by:
Gore=580,000
Bush=2,2427,000
States won by:
Gore=19
Bush=29
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
Gore=13.2
Bush=2.1

Thanks for the info, I didn't know that the affluent landowners of America favored Bush in the last election. There's only one stat that counts: Who got the most votes?

Posted by: Scotty Mac at February 12, 2004 05:36 PM | PERMALINK

"Aren't you waxing nostalgic for the days when "Al" was bull goose looney in these comments pages? I never realized what a high-level of wingnuttery that man practiced until this week."

LOL. Is this some sort of: Al maybe a troll, but he's our troll, dammit.

Al then responds:
"Woo-hoo! What a reputation I have!
Hasn't stopped my stalker from continuing to impersonate me, though."

An impersonator is not a stalker, even if he follows you from Calpundit comment section to section. If he follows you to another blogger, then, call him stalker (or better yet the police).

Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 05:37 PM | PERMALINK

"It took from September until FEBRUARY for me to find out he was a Senator's son."

Gee, I'd hate to see your 1L grades.

Posted by: obe at February 12, 2004 05:39 PM | PERMALINK

Military drills are ALL about knowing the other member of your team. A base is NOT a gym. People there KNOW who is there, and how isn't. Who is doing latrine cleaning duties, and who is stuck pushing pencils.

And his father had mucho bucks, was a big name in Texas, and nationally. Nope, the nobody knew him won't fly, Al.

Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 05:47 PM | PERMALINK

Even if one buys the White House story (I don't), Bush's service verges on dereliction of duty and evidences cowardliness and turpitude. It is appalling. I wish I could go back in time and drag his sorry ass to Saigon.

Posted by: Lupin at February 12, 2004 05:50 PM | PERMALINK

isn't anyone convicted of a felony ineligible to be President?

I don't think so. I mean, Lyndon LaRouche is running. And hasn't Larry Flynt run before?

Posted by: apostropher at February 12, 2004 05:50 PM | PERMALINK

States won by:
Gore=19
Bush=29

Nader won 2 states?

Posted by: babasdf at February 12, 2004 05:59 PM | PERMALINK

Alabama Air National Guard: 700 men, no one saw Bush. Kind of sounds like the Freepers.

Posted by: Social Scientist at February 12, 2004 06:00 PM | PERMALINK

WHO WAS GWB FUCKKING?
She stops short of claiming a great romance with the governor. "It was simply sex," she says. "It was the cheapest relationship you can imagine."

You don't often hear that sort of thing from goats.

Posted by: Hamilton Lovecraft at February 12, 2004 06:16 PM | PERMALINK

Someone please look up:

U.S. Patents awarded in states won by Gore

vs.

U.S. Patents awarded in states won by Bush

And you will find that that Republicans not only freeload on the taxes of others but also the innovations.

Posted by: wetzel at February 12, 2004 06:20 PM | PERMALINK

In You Know Me, Al by Ring Lardner, it's said of the title character, "You wanted to like the guy---until he started talking."

That could be the case also with this site's "Al" whose smug affirmations of Bush innocence continue to enthrall his many tag-a-long readers. He's not quite so enthralling though when it comes to history. Watch for his allusions (which he often made here last night) to FDR, his citations of World War II, his testimonials on cold war fools and warriors. When that happens head for the hills. He's in way over his head.

Posted by: Sam Spade at February 12, 2004 06:24 PM | PERMALINK

The timeline posted above was incorrect in one key detail:

"May 1972
Bush asks for and receives permission to continue his duties in Alabama
"

No. He was denied permission. He requested a transfer to a different group in Alabama in September and this transfer was granted.

Dammit...this story is not that complicated. Is it really too much to ask that they get the details right?

Posted by: PaulB at February 12, 2004 06:25 PM | PERMALINK

While I came over today merely to warn "Al" that, thanks to that Slate link and the Freeperati gang bang that it has spawned on Kevin's comment boards, he's in danger of seeming sane and reasonable by contrast, let me stop to note something:

George W. Bush has never been one who suffered from the dangers of "blending in with the crowd." I have friends who were at Yale with him: he had a bit of a reputation, entirely benign, except that most folks worried he'd drink himself to death and never take advantage of his charm and priviledge. He wasn't leading an anonymous existence. Those on the Blount campaign sure remember him, too, some more favorably than others. But they remember him, definitely, including Tom Blount, William Blount's son, who was irritated that he'd come in every morning to campaign headquarters, put his feet up on his desk, and brag about his drinking, which Tom Blount thought unseemly for a 26-year-old. In a pack of 30 to 50 seriously bored pilots at Donnally Air Base, with a bar nearby and chicks to chase, Bush would have been noticed. He enjoyed people to much, enjoyed parties too much, had too much opportunity to charm, not to have impressed. That's one of his political skills, making strangers like him, filling a room with his own presence. Now, it seems as though it's working to his disadvantage.

Posted by: Brian C.B. at February 12, 2004 06:27 PM | PERMALINK

Slightly OT, but has anybody else noticed that Tweety Mathews seems to be re-sprouting his long-lost journalistic cojones?

Posted by: Brautigan at February 12, 2004 06:27 PM | PERMALINK

Shad wrote: "You seem remarkably incurious about following up on or correcting any aspects of your "reporting" that doesn't support your original suppositions"

That's because Turnipseed's testimony is largely irrelevant, Shad. First of all, you have Turnipseed's administrator saying the same thing. And you have other people in Alabama also confirming. And you have not one person coming forward to say yes, they saw him.

All Turnipseed is saying now is that he doesn't know. If that were the only evidence we had, you'd have a valid point. Since it's not, it really doesn't matter.

Posted by: PaulB at February 12, 2004 06:27 PM | PERMALINK

Stan wrote: "Pathetic. I have no doubt we could dig up two or more Clinton haters who could swear they helped him...."

And yet, you still cannot dig up even one person who loves (or hates or is indifferent to) Bush who will say that they worked with him in Alabama. Why is that, do you think?

Posted by: PaulB at February 12, 2004 06:30 PM | PERMALINK

Hi,

Greetings from the Old Europe :) i.e. Belgium! ;)

One could argue every country gets the president it deserves, but that does not count in case of a stolen presidency - I guess.

Somehow, everybody here hates the U.S.A. We boycott US-shit whenever we think it is appropriate, and the last think Europeans would think about is visiting the Far West, ever and or again. But that's easy.

It must be a lot harder for you American people to see your own, once proud, nation being destroyed by one braincell. If I were a US-citizen, I would run for president myself. It can't be that difficult, looking at your history of retards in the White House.

Good luck to your country and remember we sane Europeans will keep praying with you for the Devil to get his son back where he belongs: and that's NOT Texas, NOR Alabama, folks!

Posted by: uuft at February 12, 2004 06:32 PM | PERMALINK

Imagine Bush at age 26, though. Single. Lots of drinking and.... Living free. Doors swing open wherever he goes. There is no accountability in his life, no one to answer to, except dad. He escaped the draft by joining the guard, then escaped the last 2 years of the guard by never showing up. (Or something.)

If it's hard to imagine Bush in 1972, check him out 20 years later in 1992, as president's son, just before dad got creamed by the Clenis. And take particular note of how Bush throws his glass back at the end of the clip. What is that style; it a gesture as much as a movement. What does it say?

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/packageart/bush/bush_tsg.mov

or click the link.

Posted by: obe at February 12, 2004 06:33 PM | PERMALINK

Boy, I love how the Busheviks are coming out in force here to try to squash this story! They must have got the word from Pravda^wThe Weekly Standard with Rove's current "talking points", 'cause they seem to all be spitting out the same identical "points" (gosh, wonder why?!). I especially love how they keep trotting out the same old discredited stuff from 2000 without taking into account any of the new information that has been released since then, and how they whine that anybody who criticizes their Great Leader is just being mean (oh wah! Do you want cheese with that whine?!).

They started this knife fight back in 2000, when they smeared my man John McCain with that "illegitimate black child" crap in South Carolina. Now they're whining 'cause the guys they want to stab in 2004 pulled out a machete to counter their switchblade? What a bunch of losers.

Posted by: BadTux at February 12, 2004 06:46 PM | PERMALINK

"A. Rumors abounded about his cocaine use."

Actually, NO ONE has claimed first-hand knowledge of Bush use of cocaine. No one has even written a news story claiming an anonymous source who claims knowledge of Bush cocaine use. Merely "rumors" -- meaning completely unsourced innudendo, with no more credibility (and a longer chain of "evidence") than me writing here and now, "I saw John Kerry soddomize a dead boy in a limo in front of his Beacon Hill townhouse."

In contrast, 3 aquaintances of Bill Clinton have claimed direct knowledge of HIS cocaine use (including his brother, on a police surveillance tape; and Gennifer Flowers, to journalists).


**********
marky: "The TANG records probably indicate that W. was convicted of a felony at some point. That is the big secret."

He wouldn't have gotten into TANG with a felony. And if he got in anyway due to undue influence, certainly the conspirators wouldn't have put the felony into his records.

Posted by: David Pittelli at February 12, 2004 06:50 PM | PERMALINK

"Thanks for the info, I didn't know that the affluent landowners of America favored Bush in the last election. There's only one stat that counts: Who got the most votes?"

Actually, the only stat that counts is who got the most electoral votes, unfortunately. And let's not forget to count the Supremes ;)

As far as Red state vs. Blue state stats, the most interesting I've seen is the comparison of federal revenue and federal spending by state. I don't have the numbers handy, but I was shocked by how much the Blue states are subsidizing the Reds. And it's only getting worse with the Repub pork machine running in high gear. And these guys have the nerve to complain about wealth redistribution in the tax code.

Another way to put it: wrt the federal budget, Blue states contribute a huge surplus, while Red states incur a huge deficit. Unfortunately, with the Repubs in charge, the Red state deficit is now much larger than the Blue state surplus.

I used to be able respect the Repubs, and occasionally throw a vote their way, in the name of fiscal responsibility, but those days are long gone.

Feeling Blue in a Red state...

Posted by: Pablo at February 12, 2004 07:08 PM | PERMALINK

For the trolls and freepers that infest this thread.

Just to set the record straight.

GWB had a lot of problems getting through pilot training. Once again, daddys influence helped a lot there.

Get over it. He was hardly characterized by anyone in the know as even a mediocre "stick". "Put him in a fighter type aircraft for his daddy but keep him away from range work where he could kill someone other than himself".

Posted by: Sky-Ho at February 12, 2004 07:12 PM | PERMALINK

David Pittelli,

"Actually, NO ONE has claimed first-hand knowledge of Bush use of cocaine."

Yeah, but when he got asked point blank about it, what did he do ?
You may choose not to, but I remember.

First he refused to confirm or deny it. Later he would say only that "when I was young and irresponsible, I was young and irresponsible." Next he said that the issue wasn't relevant. Then he said that he wouldn't address "rumors." Then he said that he could pass a standard security check dating back seven years. Finally, he said that he could've passed the security check in his father's White House -- fifteen years. Though he had to think before specifying whether he could've passed it then or now.

Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 07:16 PM | PERMALINK

Jeez, wonkette sure kicks some serious ass.

I'm wet.

www.wonkette.com

Posted by: Yap at February 12, 2004 07:20 PM | PERMALINK

Who's the current ambassador to China (you know the large country with a lot people)?
Randt (the only one you have to look)

I actually know Randt a little bit, as my mom is very good friends with his wife. Sadly, my answer to question two was the same as for the "President of the Democratic Party": some faceless drone.

Posted by: Anarch at February 12, 2004 07:21 PM | PERMALINK

Anarch, there are No presidents of parties anymore. They're chairman, that's why you came up blank.

Now try again,
Democratic chariman ?

Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 07:23 PM | PERMALINK

Thanks for the info, I didn't know that the affluent landowners of America favored Bush in the last election. There's only one stat that counts: Who got the most votes?

No that's not it. It's the person that gets the most Electoral College votes.

Posted by: RW at February 12, 2004 07:24 PM | PERMALINK


Yglesias is about the only Democratic blog I can read now, it seems. This national guard thing is going nowhere. Nobody remembers well enough to disprove anything and the documentation seems to support the president. Even if he was AWOL, there's no proof.

Posted by: Chris K at February 12, 2004 07:25 PM | PERMALINK

"Actually, NO ONE has claimed first-hand knowledge of Bush use of cocaine."

So, uh, someone is going to go, "Yeah me an' George useta hoover that shit up, lemme tell ya a story..."

Posted by: Yap at February 12, 2004 07:27 PM | PERMALINK

Dig it, dig this: The republicans invented something called ratfucking. Thanks to the Watergate scandal we got to see how it worked, although I'm sure it's much improved now.

Even then, ratfucking included the tactic of FUBARing your Democratic foe during the primaries, and plant evidence and leads to make it look like another Democrat did it. This is how McGovern was blamed for something called the Canuck Letter, a slander on Muskie's wife. Muskie was the frontrunner at the time and was a much better candidate than McGovern, but his campaign was ratfucked to death because they wanted McGovern to be nominated instead.

So, you party has a history of this, at the highest level possible, the presidency, and this happens to be the most corrupt administration since that one. So it is quite obviously not beyond them. In fact, they already committed fraud and voter disenfranchisement in Florida in 2000, so it would be par for the course.

Posted by: M. Aurelius at February 12, 2004 07:27 PM | PERMALINK

Greetings from the Old Europe :) i.e. Belgium! ;)

One could argue every country gets the president it deserves, but that does not count in case of a stolen presidency - I guess.

Somehow, everybody here hates the U.S.A. We boycott US-shit whenever we think it is appropriate, and the last think Europeans would think about is visiting the Far West, ever and or again. But that's easy.


Hello, Belgium!

I'm surprised you speak English so well; I thought you'd only speak German. Oh, that's right, you're not ruled by Nazi Germany any more.

You're welcome.

Al

Posted by: Al at February 12, 2004 07:31 PM | PERMALINK

Al, don't you DARE take credit for something you didn't do !
Now sit down !

Dear Belgian visitor, excuse our court jester Al's rudeness.

Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 07:37 PM | PERMALINK

As a comparison, I went to law school with the son of a Senator. Now, although my law school class was quite large, it was divided up into sections, and this Senator's son was in my section. It took from September until FEBRUARY for me to find out he was a Senator's son. And that's with me seeing him in class virtually every day.

This is actually believable. I went to the best law school in DC, and there were 2 sons of Senators in my section and the son of a network news anchor. Now, the network news anchor was a Junior, so he didn't have to say whose son he was. One of the Senators' sons was quite outgoing, and it wasn't long before everyone knew who his father was. The other Senator's son was quite quite and unassuming, however, and it was a while before word got around about his father. Now Al, which of one foregoing three do you think George W. Bush is NOT like?

Posted by: John Dillinger at February 12, 2004 07:39 PM | PERMALINK

JFH:
Quick:
Who's the current ambassador to the UN?
Who's the current President of the Republican Party?
Who's the current ambassador to China (you know the large country with a lot people)?

Whether or not I know who the senior Senator from Michigan is, or the mayor of Atlanta, it would quickly become common knowledge among the reservists if the new guy who transferred in happened to be the son of one or the other.


I could only answer one of these without looking it up, and the world in '72 was not nearly as politically conscious as it is now and had far less resources (e.g. cable and the internet) to get info.

The world in '72 was pretty politically conscious, what with a war in Southeast Asia, an upcoming election, and all. I have a suspicion that the guys Al Gore served with in Vietnam remember him -- partly because his father was a Senator and partly because he was there.

Posted by: Keith at February 12, 2004 07:39 PM | PERMALINK

Al, just cause no right thinking people took the bait the first time, it doesn't give you another chance at the SAME 'OL SPIEL.

Pull up your pants, your ass is showing.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Posted by: Yap at February 12, 2004 07:39 PM | PERMALINK

Well JFH, if you do know jack about airplanes, then tell me how many real young pilots would just stop flying for no reason, for two years, when given the chance to fly jet fighters for free over friendly territory in exchange for committing to a few hours a month of duty. Sounds like heaven to me.

As far as I know, bush never flew again as PIC in any type of aircraft. That is really quite remarkable for a pilot in his income bracket.

He was probably scared and couldn't deal with it anymore, which drove him to the coke and drink. Typical son-of-a-pilot who can't hack living up to his daddy's wings. If you know airplanes, you've seen that story before.

Posted by: M. Aurelius at February 12, 2004 07:47 PM | PERMALINK

Alright, I'll break it down, there was no belgian vistor, it was sarcasm.

Al got the joke cause he knows the technique, so did I.

I like it.

Posted by: Yap at February 12, 2004 07:47 PM | PERMALINK

Al, you are making a spectacle of yourself.

The whole damn world and 53% of US voters feel the same way as the chap from Belgium when it comes to your fearless leader, Captain AWOL. America deserves better. So does the rest of the world.

We all know he is a liar. We all know he is a fake. We all know he is running this country into the ground, like everything else he's ever run. It took you six months to realize that guy was a senator's son. How long will it take you to realize Bush is a total loser and unworthy of your support?

Posted by: obe at February 12, 2004 07:49 PM | PERMALINK

Someone please look up:
U.S. Patents awarded in states won by Gore
vs.
U.S. Patents awarded in states won by Bush

Ask and you shall receive wetzel.
US Patents since 1976:
Gore States 1,163,267
Bush States 622,540

Reproduce with these searches here: http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/search-adv.htm

Gore States search:
Is/ (CA or CT or DE or HI ot IL or IA or ME or MD or MA or MI or MN or NJ or NM or NY or "OR" or PA or RI or VT or WA or WI)

Bush States search:
IS/ (AL or AK or AZ or AR or CO or FL or GA or ID or IN or KS or KY or LA or MS or MO or MT or NE or NB or NV or NH or NC or ND or OH or OK or SC or SD or TN or TX or UT or VA or WV or WY)

Posted by: Kop at February 12, 2004 07:52 PM | PERMALINK

"Actually, NO ONE has claimed first-hand knowledge of Bush use of cocaine."

Not so. Dannenhaur (sp?), Bush I's Chief of Staff, claimed that W. did coke in an interview with a Houston newspaper in 1999, I believe.

He later recanted, saying he said no such thing.

So that tale is dubious, but it's out there.

Bush himself, claimed some BS story about how he "could pass a background check in my father's White House" which asked about drug use in the past 15 years, which puts us at 1974.

Not exactly a firm, leadershiplike denial, mind you, but not a complete NO, I Never Took Drugs, either.

Again, easily solved by Bush. Answer the Question.

Did you take drugs.
What drugs.
When?
Ever Arrested?
For what?
When?

It's not that hard. Every one of the people who worked for me have had to do it. If you've ever applied for a job, you've probably had to answer similar questions.

I find it amazing that people on the right, who would defend to their last breath employer's rights to ask these questions of their respective employees, get into spitting hissyfits if someone would dare ask them of a prospective public servant.

I don't get it. Where's the consistency in that?

Posted by: Monkey at February 12, 2004 08:00 PM | PERMALINK

I was vaudevilled by Al and Yap.

The disgrace...
;)

Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 08:04 PM | PERMALINK

One Alabama guardsmen remembers Bush around:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37904-2004Feb12.html

Of course, he's no doubt in the pay of Karl Rove, maybe even the same guy who smuggled the drawing of Bush's teeth into the Colorado archives...

Posted by: rd at February 12, 2004 08:13 PM | PERMALINK

An ex-Guardsman Calhoun says he saw Bush reported for duty in Alabama.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37904-2004Feb12.html

Aides Study President's Service Records
As White House Awaits More Documents, It Considers Further Data Releases

By Mike Allen and Lois Romano, Washington Post
Friday, February 13, 2004; Page A08

A Republican close to Bush supplied phone numbers yesterday for an owner of an insulated-coating business in the Atlanta area, John B. "Bill" Calhoun, 69, who was an officer with the Alabama Air National Guard. Calhoun said in an interview that Bush used to sit in his office and read magazines and flight manuals as he performed weekend duty at Dannelly Field in Montgomery during 1972. Calhoun estimated that he saw Bush sign in at the 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group eight to 10 times for about eight hours each from May to October 1972. He said the two occasionally grabbed a sandwich in the snack bar.

"He'd sit on my couch and read training manuals and accident reports and stuff like that," Calhoun said. "The pilots would read those so they would see what other guys did wrong. . . . He never complained about coming."

Calhoun, a retired lieutenant colonel who said he was the group's flying safety officer and later its plans officer, described Bush as "a typical fighter pilot -- he was aggressive with his talk."

"He said he wanted a career in politics," Calhoun recalled. He said Bush used to talk about how hard he worked on the Senate campaign. "He'd come in on a Saturday morning and say, 'Man, I've been going like crazy,' " Calhoun said.

Calhoun said he is a Republican but has not talked to Bush since 1972, and has never talked to anyone from the White House.

Problem is, from May to Oct 1972, Bush is only credited for service for one weekend (Sat and Sun, Oct 28-29).

Calhoun's report of Bush coming in eight, ten time, telling him about the Senate campaign doesn't quite match up. But it's possible that he just got the dates wrong. Or maybe the service records got the dates wrong.

Posted by: Mike at February 12, 2004 08:14 PM | PERMALINK

Alright, finally.

One guy. Well, I guess that settles it, I don't need to see any documenting evidence like unit muster records, etc. Nothing to see here, move along.

I don't care if he was AWOL, I want to know:

* Did he ever take drugs while in the Guard?
* Was he ever arrested for drugs?
* Did he use his influence as Gov., as reported in USA Today and on HardBall, to alter his NG records?

That's what I'm curious about. Missing a few days here and there doesn't mean shit to me. I am MUCH more interested in why he missed his physical, and what happened to him after that.

Posted by: Monkey at February 12, 2004 08:20 PM | PERMALINK

Al, don't you DARE take credit for something you didn't do !

My COUNTRY did it. On behalf of my country, then, Belgium, you're welcome for our having liberated your country.

Posted by: Al at February 12, 2004 08:27 PM | PERMALINK

Calhoun's report of Bush coming in eight, ten time, telling him about the Senate campaign doesn't quite match up.

Well, the White House was probably afraid to call and coach him, because they figured someone might found out. So Calhoun probably thought -- hey, the more the merrier. He's just trying to help.

Posted by: Billmon at February 12, 2004 08:29 PM | PERMALINK

Thank you,

Al's America.

Posted by: Belgium at February 12, 2004 08:33 PM | PERMALINK

Don't kid yourself, Yap.

Posted by: Al at February 12, 2004 08:33 PM | PERMALINK

trick question, it's a chairman: Ed Gillepsie.

No no, "Ed Gillespie" was that Martin Short character on SNL. You know, "Pat Sajak", "Totally Mental", etc ...

Obligatory Turnipseed Comment:
I haven't ploughed through all the sources yet, but the document approving w's transfer to the 187th TRG suggests that the group's personnel chief may not have been aware of w's status at that time (15 Sept 72).

Lieutenant Bush should report to LtCol William Turnipseed, DCO, to perform Equivalent Training. Lieutenant Bush will not be able to satisfy his flight requirements with our group.

Since w was grounded at the time, he may not have had any flight requirements and may have ended up in Captain Lott's unit after all. Not that any of them have come forward either ...

Posted by: SerpentX at February 12, 2004 08:34 PM | PERMALINK

Re: DUmmies

O.K., so Ltc. Burkett claims, with no corroboration, that the TXANG "cleansed" GWB's service records. This begs an obvious question:

Did the TXANG somehow also "cleanse" the federal records in Denver and St. Louis in 1997 as well?

And if so, how?

Mr. Drum, you're beating a dead horse here. But, I guess I blogger has to do what he has to do to increase traffic, eh?

And btw, it's a free country of course, but until you establish some sort of even the most rudimentary editorial code of conduct to establish measurable quality, spare us the pretense of being a "journalist".

You're a blogger, and a partisan one, not a journalist.

That said, keep pumping up those site meter stats!

Posted by: bubba at February 12, 2004 08:46 PM | PERMALINK

Hey bubba.. yeah, you moron!
Did the government "cleanse" the records in Denver? Duh, NO! That's why Dan Bartlett had to sift through them to find something the public could view.

Posted by: Marky at February 12, 2004 08:50 PM | PERMALINK

RE: Marky

Until you find something to corroborate your hearsay, shut the hell up.

Put up, or shut up, MORON!

Posted by: bubba at February 12, 2004 08:58 PM | PERMALINK

Oh come on quit beating a dead horse here. Bush's payroll records prove that he was present for ... hold it, you say the payroll records show he was missing for six months? But he made that up, uhm, somewhere uhm ... oh look! In the sky! It's the Kenis! It's the Kenis! Oh the horror, those Democrats and their free willies, Americans all over are dying from shock that a politician might actually screw an intern, it's so... so.... unheard of! Nevermind that AWOL stuff, the Kenis is a threat to America, and must be destroyed before it deflowers each and every virgin in this great land!

As for the election, Bush will win. I know because God told me so, just like he told Pat Robertson. So there.

Yours in Christ,
John Asscroft, Attorney General, Untied States of America

Posted by: John Ashcroft at February 12, 2004 09:02 PM | PERMALINK

LOL. Calm down, Bubba! You need corroboration? Just look at the White House's own statements.
They indicate that Bartlett looked through the documents from Denver and chose what to release.

Posted by: Marky at February 12, 2004 09:04 PM | PERMALINK

Bubba, why don't you just admit that your liar in chief is not only illegitimate (fraud in 2000), but likely a convicted felon as well. Time will tell.
Don't expect this story to go away before your aneurysm breaks.

Posted by: Marky at February 12, 2004 09:06 PM | PERMALINK

Let's all chill, eh?

All the ABB's know he'll lose, all the freeps know it too.

Group hug.

Kid myself, Al?

Pretty weak, dude.

Hang on I gotta pee.

Posted by: Yap at February 12, 2004 09:06 PM | PERMALINK

Wings on Nuts,
Untied, Unbalanced.
Undone.

Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 09:08 PM | PERMALINK

Al,

I was Belgium. Don't blame Yap, please.

See, I told the truth and I feel a lot better. Now if only our smug tosser, W, would cleanse his sins the same way.

Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 09:11 PM | PERMALINK

RE: Marky

O.K., I'll calm down. Sorry.

Now then, what records do you purport Bartlett has withheld, "cleansed", or whatever other unsupportable claim is currently in vogue?

No hearsay, no conspiracy, just the name of the unreleased documents that you think would prove this spurious charge of "AWOL".

And exactly how it supports such a claim.

Posted by: bubba at February 12, 2004 09:11 PM | PERMALINK

Of course congresscritters with actual DEAD interns in their offices don't merit a mention because they're repubs?

Posted by: M. Tullius at February 12, 2004 09:14 PM | PERMALINK

Comparing whether you remember who this person is/was in govt, or who was from a notable family in a class in college is not even analogous. This is the military, and is funded by the govt. My dad was in the military (35'-57'), and said they always knew when the son of somebody (govt or militiary officer) of importance was coming to their ship. Notice in the article regarding the two guardsmen, that they were anticipating Dubya coming as they were given a heads-up. Think how the military works, no different than any major corp. If someone important is coming through, you know about it.

Posted by: chris/tx at February 12, 2004 09:16 PM | PERMALINK

RE: Marky

Gee, don't you mean "liar-in-thief"?

Damn, there for a moment I thought there might be at least one rational correspondent in this group-think wasteland of goose-stepping brownshirted automata.

What a forlorn hope that was.

Posted by: bubba at February 12, 2004 09:17 PM | PERMALINK

"The problem is that William Turnipseed, the retired general who commanded the unit that Bush had transferred to, the 187th Air National Guard Tactical squadron at Dannelly Air National Guard base, says he doesn't remember ever seeing Bush.

Well, maybe he just forgot? He was probably a busy guy, after all."

Er, for someone following this so closely, how could you not know what just about every media outlet on earth has reported - that Turnipseed was not there very often, the Globe quite possibly distorted his words and if Bush says he's there, Turnipseed believes him.

Posted by: HH at February 12, 2004 09:31 PM | PERMALINK

Bubba,

do you even know what a brownshirt is ? Have you any sense of history. Because your short-term memory seems to have gone AWOL, no I take that back, it's actually deserted you. I saw no goosestepping, group-think, fascist behaviour here.

sincerely - not that you'll remember -,

Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 09:32 PM | PERMALINK

"And they want to talk about someone getting laid! "

Er, no Wes Clark does.

Posted by: HH at February 12, 2004 09:33 PM | PERMALINK

funny no one has mentioned this one upthread (from the Globe story at PERMALINK):

"Failure to take your flight physical is like a failure to show up for duty. It is an obligation you can't blow off," McGinnis said. (emphasis mine)

fwiw, sounds like a definition of "AWOL" to me...

Posted by: dm at February 12, 2004 09:35 PM | PERMALINK

The problem is not that Turnipseed doesn't remember him being around. The interesting problem is: If he moved back to Houston in November 1972, what the hell is he doing going back to Alabama to see a dentist in January of the following year? Makes no sense. He should already have shown up for duty in Texas.

Posted by: pjcamp at February 12, 2004 09:36 PM | PERMALINK

Oops: the Globe story

Posted by: dm at February 12, 2004 09:40 PM | PERMALINK

Exactly what I keep asking. What the hell is going ON in late '72 early '73 anyway? We've got three sources that say Bush was there in January (the pay records, the dental exam and the ex-girfriend, if we assume she was talking about January). But Bush ISN't SUPPOSED TO BE THERE in january. His transfer was for Sept-Nov. The election had been over for 2 months, and Bush had already left town. So why the hell go back to Alabama?

And we've got two sources (the pay records, and this new guy) that say the Bush attended drill earlier, but the two don't match each other. Sigh. New guy says ten times before Nov, records say nothing till Oct 28. WTF?

Who the *&%^%# was the damn PAYMASTER for this unit? Is he dead? Cuz if not, we need to get a
hold of him to straighten this mess out.

Posted by: epist at February 12, 2004 09:50 PM | PERMALINK

RE: Ch2

Yeah, I know what a "brownshirt" is. The Nazi SA. They were socialists - national socialists.

Politically not that much different from the radically crazed, but politically isolated, kindred spirits that find refuge on internet conspiracy hubs like this.

How's that for an answer, Herr Gauleiter?

Posted by: bubba at February 12, 2004 09:51 PM | PERMALINK

USA Today:

Bush's driving records disclosed

More questions, more evidence of special treatment.

Posted by: aReader at February 12, 2004 09:56 PM | PERMALINK

Not good enough, Herr Süderner.

They were the fascist tools. Hitler used them then killed their leader.

The brownshirt are the GOP youth: devoid of critical thoughts, imbued with a false sense of patriotism, willing to excuse any abuse from their leader or country, and consistently putting themselves on the line in return for what ?

Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 10:02 PM | PERMALINK

My sister is in the Guard and has to get a mandatory physical every year (she is not a pilot). After blowing off his 1972 physical, did Bush ever have another one? Later that year, or during the next two years??

Posted by: m.c. at February 12, 2004 10:06 PM | PERMALINK

Yeah, I know what a "brownshirt" is. The Nazi SA. They were socialists - national socialists.

Wrong. They were fascists. The first folks they killed were socialists and communists. That the party called itself the "National Socialist" party is meaningless, since it was openly opposed to socialism as part of its principles. It could have called itself the "German Yiddish Party" for all that it mattered, even though it killed Jews. Also, "National" means "of a nation, a place of birth" and "socialist" is "one for a society" which pretty means just about all of us, except the anarchists who hate nations.

IOW, bubba does not know who the brownshirts were. Pick up a frigging encyclopedia.

Posted by: Diamond LeGrande at February 12, 2004 10:19 PM | PERMALINK

Why don't we try a simple test? If George won't release his records, why not ask members of the Alabama Guard at the time to release theirs? If you look at the records for them, you can assume that George should have the same records. And if he doesn't...

Also I do find it odd that no one remembers George, most Guard units of the time had politically connected members and those types like to socialize and network. George by all accounts, wasn't a shy retiring type, he would have been noticed, and with his Dad running for President just 6 years later, you think someone would have said "I think I remember his son. Yeah same name and he really resembled his Dad." Of course maybe I'm part of the great left-wing Vegan, Osama loving, traitorous, liberal conspiracy...

Posted by: Raptor at February 12, 2004 10:30 PM | PERMALINK

So when will republican youth start wearing uniforms? Will they carry banner portraits of Ernst Roehm?

Why do they hate this country so?

Posted by: bobbyp at February 12, 2004 10:34 PM | PERMALINK

Actually, NO ONE has claimed first-hand knowledge of Bush use of cocaine. No one has even written a news story claiming an anonymous source who claims knowledge of Bush cocaine use.

Very true, David, and for this reason I wouldn't believe it - except that the witness who matters, George W. Bush, will only swear that he didn't take cocaine any time after 1974.

When I was 10, I went through a phase of stealing. I'd take small items from counters - candy and stuff - and run away. I got away with it. After a few weeks, I stopped doing it. Now if you asked me, "Have you EVER stolen anything?" I'd have to say, Yes. But I could truthfully say "Not for over twenty-five years." That was Bush's answer. And who knows? Maybe he's thinking of a few lines at a few parties - or maybe he spent a couple of years coked out of his skull. We just don't know. It's possible that those medical records that the White House doesn't want to release would tell us... but I don't think Karl Rove wants them released.

Posted by: Jesurgislac at February 13, 2004 12:17 AM | PERMALINK

Anarch, there are No presidents of parties anymore. They're chairman, that's why you came up blank.

Now try again,
Democratic chariman ?

I wasn't clear enough, it seems: I couldn't remember the chairman -- hence, the quotes on "President..." -- of either party. I could find out in 30 seconds flat if I cared, but I don't :)

Posted by: Anarch at February 13, 2004 12:23 AM | PERMALINK

Anarch, that's alright.
Just trying to help, not to put you on the spot.

:)

Posted by: ch2 at February 13, 2004 12:33 AM | PERMALINK

"But Bush ISN't SUPPOSED TO BE THERE in january. His transfer was for Sept-Nov. The election had been over for 2 months, and Bush had already left town. So why the hell go back to Alabama?" epist

This is just one of the questions aint it? It seems like as this whole thing goes on, the more the WH tries to explain it, the more questions there are.

Personally, I think that their move with the press briefings with Scott stonewalling aint the best, ie 'we answered that question in 2000...the pay stubs indicate he was paid, so he must have been paid for duty, no i will not answer whether we have proof he actually did the duty or whether we have proof'.

Lines like this wont cut it. Especially after the Pres stammered he would show all his records on MTP. Anyway, I've always had a knack for overstating the obvious. Perhaps it's too easy to get caught up in this, its like political candy for a dissenter.

Posted by: forgetting at February 13, 2004 12:38 AM | PERMALINK

Lines like this wont cut it.

So true. Maybe after all these years, Bush really has forgotten how to cut lines.

Posted by: Matt Davis at February 13, 2004 04:12 AM | PERMALINK

RE: Diamond LeGrande

You're a bloody idiot, devoid of historical or political knowledge!

The National Socialist German Workers' party (Nazi party) espoused a nationalist totalitarian form of socialism, called Nationalsozialismus. It was the left wing of the party, lead by Gregor Strasser and Ernst Röhm, and their working class brownshirts (or Sturmabteilung, the SA) within the Nazi Party that supported socialist programs. And until the Night of the Long Knives, 29 June, 1934, it was the ascendent wing within the party.

The Nazi Party, which started out as a worker's union after all, was against transnational corporations power vis-a-vis that of the nation state. This basic anti-corporate stance is shared with many mainstream center-left political parties, as well as otherwise totally opposed anarchist political groups.

The main difference beween Nazism and other forms of socialism is that Hitler's socialism was nationalistic while other forms (such as Communism) were internationalist. That it was also transmogrified by his racialist theories does not alter it's original socialist theoretical underpinnings.

Perhaps if you spent more time reading history and political science tracts, an less in ignorant online polemical rants, you wouldn't be so prone to making a fool of yourself.

At some point, the Calpundit needs to invoke Godwin's law an clean up this rhetorical cesspool.


Posted by: bubba at February 13, 2004 06:00 AM | PERMALINK

Dubya's daddy has an interesting history as a naval aviator, too.

1. George H. W. Bush's daddy was also an important right wing politician with serious and long-standing financial commitments to hostile foreigners.
2. Dubya's daddy was allowed to become the youngest pilot certified to fly fighter planes, which made for some pretty pictures, then sent into the Pacific during WW2. His plane featured a rear machine gun, fired by another person sitting in the back, facing rearward, who had essentially no way out of the plane without help from the pilot.
3. When his plane actually got shot at, Dubya's daddy hurried back to his aircraft carrier and bailed out, directly overhead. Kind of dumb, given that the props could have sucked him in and shredded him, but he was all panicky.
4. Bush bailing out made for terrific film footage, sort of justifying the medal they gave him.
5. The people who were serious about fighting the war figured they really didn't want him in the way anymore, and let Dubya's daddy go home, tour the factories, grin, wave, and sell war bonds.
6. And the guy in the back seat, covering Dubya's daddy's rear? Oh yeah. He was trapped back there. The plane flew on for another 90 minutes until it ran out of gas and crashed into the ocean, killing that back seat gunner. All because Dubya's daddy, a rich man's son with no real life experience, panicked and didn't belong up front when things got serious.
Sound familiar?
Dave Porter

Posted by: Dave Porter at February 13, 2004 06:22 AM | PERMALINK

I figured out what "wingnuts" are, and there was a clarification about the overused "trolls", but what is a "freep" or "freeper"?

Posted by: MatthewRMarler at February 13, 2004 07:23 AM | PERMALINK

Bubba:
I'm afriad you're not really correct in this case. The appropriation of the term "socialism" by the national socialists has about as much meaning as the appropriation of the term "democratic" by the DPRK.

Note that German socialist and leftist parties bitterly opposed the Nazis, that Nazi propaganda was almost unremittingly anti-Marxist, and that one of their stated objections to Jews was that there was a "Judeo-Bolshevist" conspiracy for social collectivism. Even if we move from political rhetoric to economic practice, we see that the Nazis were corporatists, rather than statists.

This doesn't mean that Strasser and Roehm did not have left-wing leanings, or that "left wing Nazis" didn't exist, but not all brownshirts were working class brownshirts, and very few Nazis were seen as (or saw themselves as) leftists. (BTW, Rohm was also a homosexual, but that cannot be taken to mean that the Nazis were a gay organization, or that they had common cause with homosexuals!)

If you go to the Axis History Factbook and check out the History of the SturmAbteilung you will find that the brownshirts were formed as a group of bodyguards and enforcers. Many of the early members came from the right-wing Freikorps, and the early leadership (before the Night of the Long Knives) included such notable leftists as Walther Stennes, Hermann Goring, and Adolph Hitler.

The brownshirts, like the blackshirts and the blueshirts, were most often thugs in the employ of right wing dictators... as such, they had very little in common with the people who regularly post on the Calpundit list.

Posted by: Keith at February 13, 2004 07:53 AM | PERMALINK

MatthewRMarler: "freep/freeper" - someone who is (or who sounds as if he is) a denizen of the freerepublic.com website.

Check out http://www.freerepublic.com/

Posted by: Jesurgislac at February 13, 2004 05:03 PM | PERMALINK
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