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February 12, 2004 THE PLOT THICKENS....George Bush's story about his National Guard service in Alabama during 1972 is that he missed a lot of drills but later made them up. And both his ARF retirement record and his pay records confirm that he got credited with duty on October 28-29 and November 11-14, periods when he was in Alabama. What's more, the presidential dental records released last night show that he was in Alabama a short time later, on January 6, 1973. The problem is that William Turnipseed, the retired general who commanded the unit that Bush had transferred to, the 187th Air National Guard Tactical squadron at Dannelly Air National Guard base, says he doesn't remember ever seeing Bush. Well, maybe he just forgot? He was probably a busy guy, after all. But Bob Mintz, who was a pilot in the 187th during that period, says that Bush's transfer was the subject of considerable scuttlebutt at the time and they were all eager to get a look at him. According to a story in the Memphis Flyer today, they never did:
Another member of the 187th, Paul Bishop, says the same thing: "I never saw hide nor hair of Mr. Bush." So if Bush wasn't at Dannelly Air Base, where was he? And what was he getting paid for? Posted by Kevin Drum at February 12, 2004 03:15 PM | TrackBackComments
Bush was elsewhere. And he was being paid for being George W. Bush. It's all he knows how to do. Posted by: Matt Davis at February 12, 2004 03:24 PM | PERMALINKAs Scooby-doo would say--"ru-roh". ROTFLMAO McClellen will probably trot out a 1973 receipt from one of Shrub's 'Bama bar tabs next. Posted by: WyldBill at February 12, 2004 03:25 PM | PERMALINK
Everyone likes a new buddy who can cover your tab because he's stinking rich. And we can be pretty sure Bush didn't arrive at the base in AL and spend all his offduty hours reading the Federal Register or Kierkegaard. Posted by: Jon H at February 12, 2004 03:27 PM | PERMALINKMan, I thought we were done with this... he got paid to visit the dentist, a profession quite common in Alabama (not so, the medical profession, that's why The Leader couldn't get his physical) Posted by: Palo at February 12, 2004 03:27 PM | PERMALINKAnd we can be pretty sure Bush didn't arrive at the base in AL and spend all his offduty hours reading the Federal Register or Kierkegaard. Bush Regales Dinner Guests With Impromptu Oratory on Virgil's Minor Works Posted by: Old Hat at February 12, 2004 03:32 PM | PERMALINKWho has John Kerry been fucking? Posted by: Your Song Is Getting Tired, Kevvie at February 12, 2004 03:33 PM | PERMALINKWho has John Kerry been fucking? Rove's head. Posted by: Old Hat at February 12, 2004 03:35 PM | PERMALINKThe Weird World of The Democrat Mind Hesiod notes that something similar was pushed in '92. Anyway, this
does sound like a very Roveian smear - the trademark little details
which don't quite make sense but have a big titillation factor. Lehane likely had access to Kerry's internal oppo when he worked for
him. Given that Clark was talking about Kerry's "intern problem", it
would lend credence to this theory. And like I said, I have independent
confirmation that Clark did, indeed, make those comments. And given that
these allegations have been circulating for several weeks, it's
possible Lehane leaked this hoping it would break sooner. But knowing it
was going to explode, why would Clark drop out? It doesn't seem to make
sense. Nice to see you guys getting a dose of your own medicine in this tawdry infighting. Funny you think it is surprising and has to come from a Republican- I guess in all of your hero worship you have forgotten Gore's vile race-baiting of Bradley in the last primary season. *** Update *** Oliver is drinking the kool-aid too: I'm sure the timing with Bush's AWOL dodges are purely coincidental
and in no way indicative of alliances between the GOP, Drudge and other
interested parties. Filed under Democrat Stupidity by John Cole at 01:59 PM
Based on the evidentiary standards created by the Democrats over the Bush military records story, I hereby proclaim that Kerry is an adulterer. In order for Kerry to prove his innocence, he must, release records showing where he was, every minute of every day for the past ten years. This shouldn't be too hard- they expect Bush to be able to do this for a period thirty years ago. Second, everyone on the planet must agree that he is innocent- otherwise the charge still stands, and since it is such a serious charge, we simply can not let it go. Yesterday a reporter asked the Bush/Cheney PR guy: " Does it bother you that these questions have been raised about your candidate?" That really is all that matters- that a question has been 'raised.' Kerry must also provide several witnesses- people who will attest that the only person he has ever slept with since marrying Heiress #2 was in fact the Heiress. Then he has to take a lie detector test. Then maybe I will believe him slightly- but then I can start a meme that his statements were lies, the lie detector test was doctored, etc. The Democrats want to play these games. Fine. I have put up with this faux outrage from the Dems for three years, and I have tried to be reasonable. The last two months let me realize what kind of people we are dealing with. Bring it on. Filed under Democrat Stupidity by John Cole at 01:45 PM
Bottom line: Burkett's story might be absolutely true. I don't know.
But there are enough red flags that I'm skeptical of it without further
backup. In the meantime, caveat emptor. Overall, then, his story hangs together reasonably well — but whether
his story is true is still a judgment call and I think the only way for
people to judge the whole thing is to hear it in his own words. ... although I was skeptical about this story yesterday, several
things have convinced me that Burkett's story is at least believable
enough that it deserves wider exposure. Filed under Democrat Stupidity by John Cole at 01:37 PM This is just for my curiosity: what makes you favor one unveriable witness over another? Posted by: Ron at February 12, 2004 03:35 PM | PERMALINKJOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP. Posted by: TERRY LENZNER IS A GOD at February 12, 2004 03:39 PM | PERMALINKJOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP. Posted by: TL = LOVE at February 12, 2004 03:39 PM | PERMALINKCarefully read DigIt's post.........hmm... Sorry, Bush is still a shallow and deceitful fraud. Please, November, hurry up. Posted by: marty at February 12, 2004 03:40 PM | PERMALINK
Including John Cole. Posted by: Jon H at February 12, 2004 03:41 PM | PERMALINKLOL... It the right wing repuke way.... They throw a lot of blah, blah, blah out and see whats sticks. Posted by: trumad at February 12, 2004 03:42 PM | PERMALINKDigIt, I skipped your screed. You want a blog? They're free, you know. Knock yourself out. But I tend to skip long posts, because they're usually: A. not topical YMMV Posted by: Monkey at February 12, 2004 03:42 PM | PERMALINKI guess he must have been dealing with the criminal justice system and then later doing community service, after the rehab program./ It took a lot of doing to cover for bush with the military, salvage the honorable discharge, get diversion of the criminal charges and get bush into harvard. But they did it. His military service would bring shame to most fathers. Imagine how pappy felt. No wonder he hated that kid and never thought he's amount to squat. Posted by: obe at February 12, 2004 03:43 PM | PERMALINK...oh gawd, the Confederancy of Dunces is still at it. The fear that GeeDubya is going to be re-elected is so palpable, I can smell through the ether. The subtext seems to be, "There's no way we, the irrational hard-core obsessive-compulsive 8% can win, so let's sit around in our circle jerk and comfort each other." "Ohhh, welcome Monkey-boy..." "...looking good there Old Fart..." "...ohhh, harder, faster....ohhhhh...." But, please, keep flailing away! It is hilarious to watch this descent into less-than- critical mass paranoic delusions: Alabama commander regrets Bush comments By Jim Cummins DALLAS - The flap over President Bush's military service in the Texas Air National Guard really comes down to what he says he did from May 1972 to May 1973 and evidence and recollection from that time. Now, the military officer at the center of the row regrets he ever got involved. Much of the controversy stems from an article in the "Boston Globe" during the 2000 election when the commander of the Alabama unit of the Air National Guard, Brigadier General William Turnipseed, said he doesn't remember seeing Bush at Air Guard meetings in Alabama at that time. But, in an NBC News interview this week, the general expressed surprise that his remarks caused such consternation. "George Bush wasn't even famous back then, so why would I notice this outsider showing up at a couple of meetings. I just wouldn't." The known facts George W. Bush was sworn into the Texas Air National Guard on May 27,
1968 during the height of the Vietnam War. He went through all of the
basic and advanced flight training and received a commission as a second
lieutenant. He then went about his business as a private citizen
attending monthly and any other special "camps" for training. Timeline
President’s service record Jan. 19, 1968 May 27, 1968 June 1968 July 12, 1968 July 14, 1968 Aug. 25, 1968 Nov. 26, 1968 - Dec. 2, 1969 Dec. 29, 1969 - Jan. 20, 1970 Jan. 11, 1970 Aug. 24, 1970 1971 May 1972 Sept. 6, 1972 November 1972 May-July 1973 Sept. 18, 1973 Oct. 1, 1973 A Lt. Colonel Lott sent Bush a letter informing him when the meetings were scheduled for the Alabama unit in October and November. The current controversy was ignited by comments from Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe, who charged Bush was absent without leave or AWOL from the Alabama Air National Guard during those 2 months in 1972. The issue has been resurrected as it now appears the president will probably be running against war-hero Senator John Kerry, if he wins the Democratic nomination. Brig. Gen. ‘recall’ in 2004 Brigadier Gen. Turnipseed, 75 and retired in Montgomery, Ala., says he's sorry he ever said he would have "had some recall" of Bush had he attended a meeting of the Alabama Air Guard unit. 'No way. He was never assigned to our unit so he couldn't be
AWOL. Like so many Guard and Reserve soldiers during the Vietnam War,
they moved around and temporarily attended meetings with other units but
Bush never left his original unit in Texas.', — Brigadier General Turnsipseed, Feb. 9 "I don't remember whether he came or not. Our unit had about 900- 1,000 men and he could have attended many meetings without me ever knowing it," Turnipseed said this week. As for Bush being AWOL, Turnipseed said, "No way. He was never assigned to our unit so he couldn't be AWOL. Like so many Guard and Reserve soldiers during the Vietnam War, they moved around and temporarily attended meetings with other units but Bush never left his original unit in Texas.” Turnipseed has said all along there would be no mention of the president in the Alabama unit since Bush was paid out of Texas. When asked about Bush’s pay record, Turnipseed said the paymaster in Alabama would note Bush attended a meeting and send the information onto Texas on what he described as an "IBM 105" card where it would be recorded and sent onto payroll in Colorado. Bush was accused by Democrats of skipping meetings because there was no written record of him attending those meetings in October and November in Alabama. On Tuesday, the White House released payroll records that showed the president received credit for attending meetings in October and November 1972. The records don't indicate where he attended those meetings but he was living in Alabama at the time. As for Turnipseed, he says the crux is that it is really difficult to remember what happened more than 30 years ago. Jim Cummins is the NBC News Dallas Bureau Chief http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4242877/ Posted by: bubba at February 12, 2004 03:44 PM | PERMALINKROFLMAO! Do I hear "look, look... over there!" desperately coming from your trolls, Kevin? BTW, where's your guy (Mike K?) that was posting so desperately yesterday that the story was over? Posted by: Ducktape at February 12, 2004 03:45 PM | PERMALINKJOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP.JOHN KERRY'S BEEN FUCKING SOMEONE, AND IT AIN'T MS KETCHUP. Posted by: TERRY LENZNER = LOVE at February 12, 2004 03:46 PM | PERMALINKKevin Drum, Why would you link to the four year old comments by General Turnipseed that the general himself claimed were either distorted or based upon [the reporter's] misunderstanding of how the military functioned? (See also here and here for some other sources for the general's recantation of the 2000 misrepresentation you've been hanging your hat on.) You seem remarkably incurious about following up on or correcting any
aspects of your "reporting" that doesn't support your original
suppositions. I think you have a better blog (and are yourself a better
blogger), when you offer reasoned opinions and substantiated arguments
as topics for discussion instead of these rather selectively purused
investigative reports. Cool. I wonder if the freepers understand just how satisfying it is to see them squirm. At this point, Kerry could screw Babs Bush on the WH lawn in front of the entire press corps and still beat Drinky McStagger. Keep it coming guys. You have no clue how sweet this is. Posted by: dasboat at February 12, 2004 03:46 PM | PERMALINKAndrea Mitchell is smearing Moveon.org on NBC nightly news. It never ends. The whole report was about attack ads but the report doesn't sight one republican group. UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!! Posted by: dfg at February 12, 2004 03:48 PM | PERMALINKDig it sez: "Surprise, surprise. Of course you think it deserves wider exposure- " Hmmm. So did the NY times, USA Today, LA Times and the WaPo, etc, etc. They were just behind the dude running this fine site. ;) Posted by: WyldBill at February 12, 2004 03:49 PM | PERMALINKDo I hear "look, look... over there!" desperately coming from your trolls, Kevin? Rest of world: "Ohmygod, its a John Kerry scadal." You seem remarkably incurious about following up on or correcting
any aspects of your "reporting" that doesn't support your original
suppositions. You think? Look, it's Kevin's blog. He can cherry-pick the evidence if he wants to. And it's pretty clear he wants to. Posted by: Al at February 12, 2004 03:52 PM | PERMALINKbubba thinks Kevin can't do his own research. that's cute bubba! bend over and let Kerry fuck you. seriously though get your own blog. they are so easy to create and you can write on them all you want without taking other folks bandwidth. Posted by: filchyboy at February 12, 2004 03:52 PM | PERMALINK"May-July 1973 Keep your eye on this piece of the puzzle. It's the next one to catch fire. Is there anything that would be more out of character for Bush than to work at an inner city poverty program? He could not even be bothered with one weekend a month for TNG, you think he willingly voulnteered to work with troubled inner city negors and mexicans and white trash? Sure he did. It was more important than taking his flight physical even. Bush worked at the "inner-city poverty program" as community service he had to perform to get out of drug charges. That seems the most likely explanation. Anyway, I can't wait to see this part of the story develop. Posted by: obe at February 12, 2004 03:53 PM | PERMALINKBubba, Why wouldn't he take a physical? Oh, and why won't they release the un-blackedout arrest list? I don't think he was AWOL, I think it's much worse than that. I think he rendered himself unfit for flight duty (which we paid A LOT for) by doing drugs. Granted, I don't have proof, but there's a lot of smoke there. A. Rumors abounded about his cocaine use. I've had people work for me. If they won't take a piss test, I have a pretty clear idea why. The Republicans on this board don't seem to care that he might have rendered himself unfit for the flight duty we paid for. I find that amazing, since they're USUALLY so tough on suspected drug abusers. Posted by: Monkey at February 12, 2004 03:53 PM | PERMALINK"Jeez, all I wan't to know is who is Kerry fucking, and how much she charged?" Try that one, guys. Posted by: Yap at February 12, 2004 03:53 PM | PERMALINKThe swamp fever really has this place in a grip. First the lies about Turnipseed's comments (he says he doesn't even know if HE was on the base at that time, much less Bush) NOW the "story" from two men who admit disliking Bush, who magically come forward NOW to say that on a base of over 800 people it's important that THEY don't remember seeing Bush. Pathetic. I have no doubt we could dig up two or more Clinton haters who could swear they helped him (or, as is popular now, here, claim they overheard Clinton discussing) kill Vince Foster, Ron Brown and the Easter Bunny. The echo chamber grows louder, the dementia stronger..... "November 1972 Then why was he getting his teeth cleaned in Alabama in January 1973? Answer me that, trolls. Posted by: Jon H at February 12, 2004 03:53 PM | PERMALINKImage the conversation in kitchen across the country. Bbbringg: "Hello." "Yes, is this Lt. Art Foneman who served in the Alabama Air National Guard at Dannelly AFB in 1972?" "Who is this?" "Who I am is not important. What is important is that you love your country. Do you Love your Country?" "Yes. Yes I do." "Good, I thought so. If you didn't then I'd have to have a conversation with your daughter Mary who is with me right now. Say hello to your father." "Dad? Dad is that you? I'm scared. Then picked me up and said that you were in trouble. I'm in a trailer somewhere and they say that only you can help them. What do they want?" "Mr. Foneman, your daughter has a very pretty blonde head. I'm sure you will like to see it again. Intact. Now will you help us?" "Help you with what?" "All you have to do is tell the media the truth. That you saw George W. Bush in Alabama in 1972." "But I don't remember! I can't remember something that happened 31 years ago!" "I'm sure that for Mary's sake you can remember a little something now can't you? I mean it was a BIG base, lots of white men coming and going. I'm sure you saw him." "Uh Yeah, now that I think about it I'm SURE I saw him. He even gave me a nickname. Um Old Fonehead he used to call me. And we used to go drinking together." "Now you are getting the picture. See how it all comes back? Now I want you to memorize these dates and times exactly as I'm going to list them. These are the dates you remember seeing George W. Bush." "Okay, I'm writing this down." "No! Do not write it down! This conversation NEVER happened. I want you to eat that paper NOW. DO YOU HEAR ME SOLIDER!" "YES SIR! I’m , sorry. SIR!" (gulp) "Remember, your country is very grateful for your service and we
wouldn't want anything to happen to you, your blonde haired daughter or
your Brown Ford pickup truck parked in your driveway with the license
plate 2CVH088, now would we?" Woah, now, shitheels. The word from the cunning planners of the RNC now is that George W. Bush spent 1972 and 1973 high in the air over the Gulf of Mexico Shooting down un-manned aerial vehicles piloted by the evil one himself while masturbating into the (at that time) empty skull of Karl Rove. Rove was created from the semen of George W. Bush and the earth slept. Slept. Then, of course, SHAD appeared to wreak vengeance. Pity SHAD. Pity Rove. Pity George W. Bush, the evil little troll. Posted by: Baldrick at February 12, 2004 03:56 PM | PERMALINKFrom Bush's loss of flying status should have spurred probe At yesterday's press briefing, McClellan accused those who continue to question the president's National Guard service of "gutter politics" and "trolling for trash" in a political campaign season. Asked if the same was true in 1992 when Bush's father criticized Governor Bill Clinton for not releasing his military records, stoking the controversy around Clinton's active avoidance of the Vietnam War draft by calling him "Slick Willie," McLellan replied, "I think that you expect the garbage can to be thrown at you in the 11th hour of a campaign, but not nine months before Election Day." Wow, I missed the scheduling memo. Posted by: karog at February 12, 2004 03:57 PM | PERMALINKShad, He was clearing brush at the far end of the flight line. Had to be, because Clinton had the franchise on all the "correctly reported" naughty stuff like smuggling Latin American drugs, raping white women and fathering mocha-skinned babies. That is when he wasn't sympathising with commies and wondering how he would bump off his wife's lesbian lovers after plotting to disappear 15 or so friends like Vince Foster. Posted by: fouro at February 12, 2004 03:58 PM | PERMALINKYa know trolls, Bush could solve all of this if he would just do as he promised and released all of his service record. Why won't Bush keep his promise? What is he afraid of? Posted by: Dominion at February 12, 2004 03:58 PM | PERMALINK"Dig it", you're right, pal Kevin's lost his mind. It's not just that he's buying into the tinfoil hat theory du joir, it's that it's obvious now he can't be counted on to bring honesty to the discussion. His linking to old and uncorrected comments by Gen. Turnipseed is a classic. Are there any non-lunatic Democrat blogs left, or have they all
joined Kevin and the likes of Democrat.com? Is Mickey Kaus going to have
to carry the entire burden of rational discussion for them? Oh my - bubba posts all that long stuff, and that Turnipseed now says that GWB was never transferred to his outfit, so he couldn't have been AWOL from it. Which is soooo interesting, since the Bushies have said that he was transferred there - which was why they didn't see him in Texas. If y'all want to sing in harmony, it would help if you stayed on the same page of the sheet music. Posted by: Ducktape at February 12, 2004 03:59 PM | PERMALINKChris Matthews is about to interview Burkett on Hardball. Posted by: Tuna at February 12, 2004 04:00 PM | PERMALINKJeebus Kevin, can't you get a copy of Atrios' troll-filter? These clowns aren't irritating because sophistry, self-interest and irrationality aren't irritating - just endlessly boring. One wishes to confine them to their own pen, at least until they recover. So dull. Posted by: GWPDA at February 12, 2004 04:01 PM | PERMALINKWell, it is consistent with him not being allowed to fly and being given some desk duty though, isn't it? I mean, this was after he was suspended from flying. Posted by: Gary at February 12, 2004 04:01 PM | PERMALINKOf course, Stan, one might conclude that you and digit are out of YOUR minds, given that sanity can be somewhat socially defined. Most of us here think that George Bush is a walking, lying disaster for our country. The reasons are well documented. Perhaps you should open your mind to the possibility that you are wrong... Posted by: fear is the mind killer at February 12, 2004 04:02 PM | PERMALINKSome interesting facts for those of you who still haven't gotten over the 2000 election: Source: Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota: Population of counties won by: Square miles of land won by: States won by: Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: What a waste of a thread. There isn't anything new to say about this, yet Kevin keeps posting stuff thats already been in the news for awhile, and flames keep burning hotter in the comments. Nothing worth spending even 2 minutes reading. Sorry KD, you jumped the shark this week. Blogs going downhill. Be back in a while to see if things pick up. Posted by: Reg at February 12, 2004 04:08 PM | PERMALINKKevin, Bush was nobody until his father ran for President. Most people don't know their own congressman's name but these yokels knew Bush the Elder from Houston. Not one in 100 Americans know the name of the head of the RNC or the UN Ambassador. Posted by: OyGevalt at February 12, 2004 04:11 PM | PERMALINKBen - The book you borrowed, "Make An Ass of Yourself With Statistics," is overdue. Posted by: Librarian at February 12, 2004 04:13 PM | PERMALINKunelected fraud won't release his records ? Answer in question. Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 04:16 PM | PERMALINKJohn Cole? Juan Troll What the hells the difference? Posted by: SW at February 12, 2004 04:16 PM | PERMALINKJeebus, the trolls are coming unhinged, Colin Powell's losing it, what next? They can feel the whole house of cards crashing down around them, and at the worst possible time: Just as a new leader begins to emerge (looks like Kerry at this point). I've never understood the irrational attachment so many people have for Bush, but I suspect it has a lot to do with "he's the only president we've got". That's changing. Welcome to the margins, trolls. Posted by: Sovok at February 12, 2004 04:18 PM | PERMALINKFunny how the troll up thread has the same fake email address but five names. When someone like Turnipseed changes his story, and their are obvious reasons to change your story, I tend to believe the first story they tell. I especially like how he says why would he remember this guy from anyone else? Could it be he was the son of a two term Congressman that ran for a Texas Senate seat twice? Could it be that he was the son of the Ambassador to the United Nations at the time in question, 1972? Posted by: chris/tx at February 12, 2004 04:18 PM | PERMALINKKevin, A suggestion for dealing with the troll epidemic that is currently infesting your site: Create a separate folder for them on your page. When they come in, just shift them into the "shit bin" and let them fester in their collective bile. Anyone with nothing better to do can read them if they choose, but it spares the rest of us the dismal experience of having to slog through the trash. Keep up the good work... Posted by: peter jung at February 12, 2004 04:20 PM | PERMALINKYou see this really sums up the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Their boy is proven to be a liar and a hypocrite. A callow arm-chair warrior who orders the deaths of thousands of people with no understanding of what that means. And they want to talk about someone getting laid! How typical. How completely self defeating. They tried that crap for eight years with Clinton and he left the White House substantially more popular than this president is today. So, they think they can drag out that same tired act, an act that essentially disgusted the country and the people won't turn against them? Guess again Juan. The Kerry getting laid gossip is going to hurt, you guessed it, George Bush. So crank it up a notch troll. You are right with the program. Posted by: SW at February 12, 2004 04:22 PM | PERMALINKThe Long Redacted Tale Thirty years ago, give or take a year or two The truth of his life is a redacted tale The Press said, "Son, where did you fly? The truth of his life is a redacted tale The election draws nigh and history calls The truth of his life is a redacted tale Nobody knows but Georgie… *** Posted by: MJS at February 12, 2004 04:22 PM | PERMALINKWell, Burkett just confirmed everything on Hardball. Completely stood by his story, and swore to the public and God. (Burkett is a preacher's son, and claimed that he spoke with another preacher's son about this in 1997.) Matthews also made a plea to anybody that served with Bush in Alabama to contact the media and tell their story. If all of the permanent records are stored out-of-state, destroying copies in Texas would've only served the purpose of keeping information from Karen Hughes when she was writing her biography. I guess. Who knows what's going on here. Posted by: Tuna at February 12, 2004 04:23 PM | PERMALINKI like the comment above about GHWB being a nobody in 1972. Oh yeah, Senate races from Texas get no national coverage. We were having a little war in SE Asia about that time, and Bush was frequently on the national news making speeches at the UN. He was being mentioned for all kinds of prominent positions in Washington. His father was somewhat of a legend in his own time like Sam Rayburn, yeah, he was a real nobody. Posted by: chris/tx at February 12, 2004 04:25 PM | PERMALINKBen, Gosh, that's funny. You might want to look at the federal dollars the Red and Blue states receive in pork. It might open your eyes as to who is sucking at the public teat more. Posted by: Monkey at February 12, 2004 04:26 PM | PERMALINK"Well, it is consistent with him not being allowed to fly and being given some desk duty though, isn't it? I mean, this was after he was suspended from flying." Actually, a 1st LT with wings stuck on a desk would probably attract even *more* attention. As in, "why is that pilot from Texas doing paperwork?". Wow, don't you trolls understand that anger isn't going to win the election in November? Voters want solutions and optimism about the future, not long rants filled with swear-words and whining. Posted by: praktike at February 12, 2004 04:28 PM | PERMALINKHouse, My apologies, the haikus are to relax us all. I am not a troll. Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 04:28 PM | PERMALINKTo quote Colin Powell, "I won't dignify your comments about the President, because you don't know what you're talking about." Which applies to most of you posting on the right and the left. What unreleased military records are y'all talking about? Tell me what forms and records with a retention record of over 30 years are you waiting for? And to the claim of a coke-head Bush avoiding a physical. Do you how long cocaine can be detected by drug screening? Do you know how the military tests for illicit drugs? I know the answers, but it's apparent that many of you don't. Finally, what about the overpaid Eastern airlines pricks who are the sources of this story, and blame GHW Bush for the fall of Eastern instead of Carter (who did a GOOD thing for the rest of us by deregulating the airlines). You know the ones that Bush, who flew a "slightly different aircraft than the F4 Phantom jets flown by the squadron, and "opted not to fly with the unit" should have run into. Yeah, reading their story, they don't have an axe to grind. BTW, if you don't laugh out loud when you read those above quotes, you don't know jack about airplanes, the Air Force and the military in general. Posted by: JFH at February 12, 2004 04:29 PM | PERMALINK
If the Alabama unit wasn't flying fighter jets, and Bush showed up as
a fighter pilot from Texas, he'd probably get a lot of attention. The constant sniffling coming from the pilot's desk, frequent trips to the men's room, long lunches, and "friends" dropping by at all time would have eventually alerted them why he wasn't flying. Posted by: John Dillinger at February 12, 2004 04:30 PM | PERMALINKSince W. wasn't fit to fly when he was in Alabama, what would he have done with this squadron anyhow? Wave goodbye on the tarmac? Posted by: Tom Hoffman at February 12, 2004 04:30 PM | PERMALINKSource: Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota: I know this is a troll comment, but anyone that's interested in the truth about it can go to Snopes. Suffice to say, the murder rate part is spectacularly wrong. Posted by: Chris at February 12, 2004 04:30 PM | PERMALINKWow! This topic sure makes the right-wing kooks froth at the mouth. Keep up the good work Kevin!! Posted by: Mike at February 12, 2004 04:31 PM | PERMALINKA leopard does not change his spots (though Bush is far from being anything cat like) He was a liar then, he is a liar now and he is NOT fit to run this country... unless running this country into the ground counts. He thinks sends American jobs overseas is a good thing. "Labor Department said initial claims for jobless benefits unexpectedly rose last week by 6,000 to 363,000, confounding analysts, who had predicted an improving job market and expected a dip to 345,000 new claims." He promised to release all his files... now stand by your word mister President. Posted by: Poz at February 12, 2004 04:32 PM | PERMALINKI enjoy reading the troll comments to confirm time and time again how right I am and how wrong they are. Thanks, kids! Posted by: Old Hat at February 12, 2004 04:33 PM | PERMALINKKeep up the good work Kevin. I feel like I have been watching history happen this week. The heat of the flames tells me that you are close to touching the source of the fear. Bush can lie through the press, but he better be sure his answers
line up. Did "everything" mean everything? What words of our Great
Leader should we just ignore, or what should we reinterpret, ... or
should we just shut up and wave our flags during the parade and don't
ask questions ... Answering myself... W. wasn't suspended from flying on August 1st '72, so he would have still been eligible. Posted by: Tom Hoffman at February 12, 2004 04:34 PM | PERMALINK"You don't remember people you saw 5 times 30 years ago unless something drastic happened to them 30 years ago. Bush was nobody until his father ran for President. " Brilliant observation, but you're forgetting that Bush's father first ran for president **in 1980**. His campaign was in full swing by the Fall of '79, a mere six years after he was (errrr.... should have been :) in Alabama. Plus his father was a sitting US congressman when Bush was (errrr... should have been) in Alabama, and he was (errrr.... is said to have been) the assistant campaign manager for a candidate for the US Senate in the state. All this may not add up to Britney Spears' level fame, but makes him unusual enough that it's hard to believe no one from the guard unit can come forward and attest to Bush's presence there. Look, I'm one of those who thinks that what Bush did as a 22 year old kid isn't particularly important at this late date, but how he's handling the issue now just makes it look worse. He should release the full records as he promised. And his rabid defenders --- what was the name of the congressman who
supported Nixon who said, "don't try to confuse me with the facts?" ---
should come up with lines of argument that small children can't
disprove. The reason for the shrillness is quite clear. For the last four years, the Media Whore-Rethuglican Industrial Complex has done everything humanely possible to prop up this manifestly unfit, amoral, lowlife of a man. It worked for a while, but it appears the people are finally starting to add it all up, that the man they once respected is really no more honest nor decent than the three-card monte player they can see outside a porn video store in any city in America. The death spiral has begun and everyone is running for the exits. The fun is officially over in Chimpyland and the folks on K Street are going to want answers after the 3-day weekend. The People Have Finally Woken Up and realized: BUSH IS A MISERABLE FAILURE ===================================== Majority of Americans Doubt Bush's WMD Claims By Richard Morin and Dana Milbank Most Americans believe President Bush either lied or deliberately exaggerated evidence that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction in order to justify war, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll. Posted by: Hank Essay at February 12, 2004 04:37 PM | PERMALINKCoke lasts about a day for a piss test, AFAIK. So he was doing lines the night before his physical? Par for the course, wouldn't you say? Posted by: Yap at February 12, 2004 04:41 PM | PERMALINKMake sure you catch the beginning of Hardball: Lt. Col. Bill Burkett (ret.) knocks it out of the park! Posted by: BudMan at February 12, 2004 04:44 PM | PERMALINKSo this is where all the trolls have gone! Remember, Kevin: the closer you are to the mark, the sooner a moronic brownshirt fuck will appear. You're hitting the bullseye... Posted by: dave1021 at February 12, 2004 04:45 PM | PERMALINKWhoops, my mistake, in late 72 and 73 Bush senior WAS NOT a sitting US Congressman. Instead, he was (from his own web site) 1. Permanent Ambassador to the UN Again, the thought that no one would remember GWB because "he was a nobody" is farcical. Posted by: cogito at February 12, 2004 04:46 PM | PERMALINKYap writes: "Coke lasts about a day for a piss test, AFAIK." Was this as well-known in 1972? Also, do they test for pot, and if so how long does that last? Posted by: Jon H at February 12, 2004 04:48 PM | PERMALINKAnd for those of you who still think that the WH does not follow the traits of the Pres.... "More than 11,000 medical evacuees have come through Andrews in the past nine months, the Air Force says. Most, we suspect, from Iraq. But that's 8,000 more than the Pentagon says have been wounded there." Did someone say Bush misplaced his calculator??? Posted by: Poz at February 12, 2004 04:49 PM | PERMALINKA READER ASKS: "DOES THIS KERRY STORY HAVE LEGS?" ANSWER MAN SAYS: FUCK YEAH, IT'S GOT LEGS. AND LONG BLOND HAIR. AND FIRM TITS. AND THE SWEETEST LITTLE PUSSY, WHICH SENATOR-MARRY RICH HAS BEEN BANGING THE HELL OUT OF FOR SOME TIME NOW. --THANK YOU. Posted by: TERRY LENZNER = GOD at February 12, 2004 04:50 PM | PERMALINK'No way. He was never assigned to our unit so he couldn't be AWOL. Like so many Guard and Reserve soldiers during the Vietnam War, they moved around and temporarily attended meetings with other units but Bush never left his original unit in Texas.', — Brigadier General Turnsipseed, Feb. 9
Curiouser and curiouser.... Hey Ben... You guys are hysterical...go over to snopes.com and see what they have to say about your Prof. Joseph Olsen stats. Posted by: whynot at February 12, 2004 04:54 PM | PERMALINKDo you how long cocaine can be detected by drug screening? Do you know how the military tests for illicit drugs? I know the answers, but it's apparent that many of you don't. JFH, Cocaine can be detected for about a week after use, depending on the method. I believe they were doing urinalysis testing at that time. Are you saying Lt. Bush would have been able to draw upon his vast medical knowledge and scoffed at a piss test? HE wouldn't have neccessarily known anything other than that they wanted to test his piss for drugs. He could have been smoking pot as well (drug users often do), and that's detectable for much longer than Cocaine is. He might have been scared shitless about taking the test, and decided not to, hoping to skate by and get clean before they forced him to take it. Your argument from authority is defeated. Score one for basic Critical Thinking 101.
Jon, I dunno about what was known about the tests in 72, pot lasts between a week and a month in a piss test, depending on how much he smoked and for how long. Posted by: Yap at February 12, 2004 04:54 PM | PERMALINKYap: "depending on how much he smoked " That would be "all of it". Posted by: Jon H at February 12, 2004 04:55 PM | PERMALINKIt's clear that the Kerry story is a godsend for Terry Lenzer and the other trolls whose pages of the Starr Report are not all stuck together. Posted by: John Dillinger at February 12, 2004 04:55 PM | PERMALINKNot the first or last time I've said this, but the way Republicans stick up for Bush is like watching a prostitute knife a guy for trying to stop her pimp from beating her -- they don't even demonstrate the basic sense to speak in their own self-interest. Posted by: Mike at February 12, 2004 04:56 PM | PERMALINKA READER ASKS: "DOES THIS KERRY STORY HAVE LEGS?" ANSWER MAN SAYS: FUCK YEAH, IT'S GOT LEGS. AND LONG BLOND HAIR. AND FIRM TITS. AND THE SWEETEST LITTLE PUSSY, WHICH SENATOR-MARRY RICH HAS BEEN BANGING THE HELL OUT OF FOR SOME TIME NOW. --THANK YOU. Posted by: W at February 12, 2004 04:56 PM | PERMALINKThe reason for the feeding frenzy is the panic, the defensive and the
inconsistency of reports coming from the White House. Instead of this
being a story about how many drill W. missed, everyone with half a
brain---and even some Freepers too---know that something bigger is
hidden. I'll put my two cents in: isn't anyone convicted of a felony
ineligible to be President? ...why don't the other member's of GeeDubya's unit come forward to vouch for him? Because the DNC and MOVEON.ORG death squads have already silenced them! Now then, you cirle-jerking Brown-shirts simians, prove this isn't true! BWAHAHAHA! BWAHAHAHA! BWAHAHAHA! BWAHAHAHA! Posted by: bubba at February 12, 2004 04:56 PM | PERMALINK"Are you saying Lt. Bush would have been able to draw upon his vast medical knowledge and scoffed at a piss test? HE wouldn't have neccessarily known anything other than that they wanted to test his piss for drugs. He could have been smoking pot as well (drug users often do), and that's detectable for much longer than Cocaine is. He might have been scared shitless about taking the test, and decided not to, hoping to skate by and get clean before they forced him to take it." Plus he'd probably be a little paranoid. AND, it'd kinda suck if a prominent member of Blount's campaign staff, a son of a prominent national Republican, got busted in a medical for drug use, and it got out into the press. Posted by: Jon H at February 12, 2004 05:00 PM | PERMALINKDrug test info was off the top of my head, facts for those interested... http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/testing/testing_info1.shtml Posted by: Yap at February 12, 2004 05:02 PM | PERMALINKbubba, lol. We should be glad the trolls and brownshirts are posting here instead of being outdoors burning crosses. Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 05:05 PM | PERMALINKwhat's wrong with marrying rich? what other reason is there? lol. i can just imagine how some of you right-wing knuckleheads married. fat, toothless and the brain of a bush. lol. Posted by: tim at February 12, 2004 05:08 PM | PERMALINK... or raping 16yo's into having abortions. Posted by: Yap at February 12, 2004 05:09 PM | PERMALINKGood point, cogito (coquito?)! Quick: Who's the current ambassador to the UN? I could only answer one of these without looking it up, and the world in '72 was not nearly as politically conscious as it is now and had far less resources (e.g. cable and the internet) to get info. To the rest of you, yeah, okay I'm a troll and I'm VERY, VERY worried that y'all are getting too close to the truth... whatever makes you feel better, fine with me. Posted by: JFH at February 12, 2004 05:10 PM | PERMALINKJust an aside from a long-time regular poster here at Calpundit, to others: Aren't you waxing nostalgic for the days when "Al" was bull goose looney in these comments pages? I never realized what a high-level of wingnuttery that man practiced until this week. Posted by: Brian C.B. at February 12, 2004 05:10 PM | PERMALINKWho IS the current president of the republican party? Ed Gillespie??? This sure seems relevant: Bush reportedly claimed to have been working for Project P.U.L.L. (some sort of community service center) in Houston for part of 1972, possibly (or not) as part of a sentence in a drunk driving or cocaine conviction. Where does this fit in the timeline? http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/10/18/cocaine/ Posted by: FSF at February 12, 2004 05:15 PM | PERMALINKI love trivia: thanks JFH Who's the current ambassador to the UN? Who's the current President of the Republican Party? Who's the current ambassador to China (you know the large country with a lot people)? Note that I am NOT in politics, nor the head of a military base. When Mc Greevey (our NJ gov) comes to a gym near me, everybody knows (even the most politically deaf). I'm feeling like Reagan, What was the point again ? Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 05:17 PM | PERMALINKAtrios trolls... old and busted Calpundit trolls... new hotness! Posted by: Gryn at February 12, 2004 05:18 PM | PERMALINK"Source: Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota" I know this is a troll comment, but anyone that's interested in the truth about it can go to Snopes. Suffice to say, the murder rate part is spectacularly wrong. Yep, the rest is true but not the murder rate part. http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.asp Posted by: Hamilton Lovecraft at February 12, 2004 05:18 PM | PERMALINKWHO WAS GWB FUCKKING? Ya know, I used to come to calpundit exclusively for the comments section, because even with Al being Al, and Charlie being Charlie, it was still reasonably well-heeled, that is until Kev got a link from Slate. Sorry about that, Kevin. Posted by: ChrisS at February 12, 2004 05:25 PM | PERMALINKAren't you waxing nostalgic for the days when "Al" was bull goose
looney in these comments pages? I never realized what a high-level of
wingnuttery that man practiced until this week. Woo-hoo! What a reputation I have! Hasn't stopped my stalker from continuing to impersonate me, though. Posted by: Al at February 12, 2004 05:25 PM | PERMALINKThe Republican defense may be banal---nobody would ever accuse any of these guys of being Victor Hugo---but that's probably because believing in Bush totally is not worth the effort. None of these sporadic rationalizations have nearly the faith or the wild and wooly passion that Nixon was accorded by half of the Watergate committee; they are more flippant, superficial, half-hearted, as if Bush is undeserving of more mature and persuasive commitments. It's evidently still true that lost causes attract the least qualified to fight them.
paula zahn talking to burkett. It's pretty obvious who is making the mess here. The company you keep says volumes. Hope mommy takes away the computer soon because these freepers are messy. And their socks stink. Posted by: tom p at February 12, 2004 05:32 PM | PERMALINKBen seems as uninquisitive as his President. Here are some stats to show why his stats are completely meaningless. 1. Population of the States won in 2000: 2. Just three Bush states constitute over 1 million square miles Texas, Alaska, and Montana. And, Gore won 8 of the 9 geographically smallest states. How could square mileage mean anything at all? Apparently, Ben and his esteemed professor have never heard of standard deviation. 3. And, if Ben's murder rate statistic is important, then why not the child beater statistic. In 63% of the states that Bush won, it is legal for a teacher to beat a child. While in 85% of the states that Gore won it is illegal. Child beaters were more likely to vote for Bush. See, you can show just about anything with statisticsn Ben. Posted by: Kop at February 12, 2004 05:34 PM | PERMALINKBush wasa such a nobody while in the Guard that while still in flight school in.... November 1969: I'm sure no one in the Guard knew about that. How could they? Nixon was barely known. Posted by: obe at February 12, 2004 05:35 PM | PERMALINKBush: "I'm an all night drug-prowling wolf ... he was a fun-loving criminal who liked to ball the the President's daughter and do lines of coke in various johns in the deep South while working for race-baiting Senate campaigns, and generally just being a fuck-up in the "charming" manner only those with very large trust funds can get away with. At least that is what I think ... The Texas Souffle. Indeed. Posted by: Joe Strummer at February 12, 2004 05:35 PM | PERMALINKWhen Mc Greevey (our NJ gov) comes to a gym near me, everybody knows (even the most politically deaf). That's very interesting and, if the person who was supposed to show up at the base in Alabama was George H.W. Bush, then might be relevent. But as the person who was supposed to show up there was not George H.W. Bush, but rather George W. Bush, it is completely irrelevent. Let me know if Gov. McGreevey's SON showed up at your gym 5 or 6 times - THIRTY YEARS AGO - and then it might be relevent. As a comparison, I went to law school with the son of a Senator. Now, although my law school class was quite large, it was divided up into sections, and this Senator's son was in my section. It took from September until FEBRUARY for me to find out he was a Senator's son. And that's with me seeing him in class virtually every day. Sorry, it just is not apparent that everyone would remember Bush simply because he was the son of the UN ambassador, since he only had to show up on base a few times. Posted by: Al at February 12, 2004 05:36 PM | PERMALINKBen wrote: Thanks for the info, I didn't know that the affluent landowners of America favored Bush in the last election. There's only one stat that counts: Who got the most votes? Posted by: Scotty Mac at February 12, 2004 05:36 PM | PERMALINK"Aren't you waxing nostalgic for the days when "Al" was bull goose looney in these comments pages? I never realized what a high-level of wingnuttery that man practiced until this week." LOL. Is this some sort of: Al maybe a troll, but he's our troll, dammit. Al then responds: An impersonator is not a stalker, even if he follows you from Calpundit comment section to section. If he follows you to another blogger, then, call him stalker (or better yet the police). Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 05:37 PM | PERMALINK"It took from September until FEBRUARY for me to find out he was a Senator's son." Gee, I'd hate to see your 1L grades. Posted by: obe at February 12, 2004 05:39 PM | PERMALINKMilitary drills are ALL about knowing the other member of your team. A base is NOT a gym. People there KNOW who is there, and how isn't. Who is doing latrine cleaning duties, and who is stuck pushing pencils. And his father had mucho bucks, was a big name in Texas, and nationally. Nope, the nobody knew him won't fly, Al. Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 05:47 PM | PERMALINKEven if one buys the White House story (I don't), Bush's service verges on dereliction of duty and evidences cowardliness and turpitude. It is appalling. I wish I could go back in time and drag his sorry ass to Saigon. Posted by: Lupin at February 12, 2004 05:50 PM | PERMALINKisn't anyone convicted of a felony ineligible to be President? I don't think so. I mean, Lyndon LaRouche is running. And hasn't Larry Flynt run before? Posted by: apostropher at February 12, 2004 05:50 PM | PERMALINKStates won by: Nader won 2 states? Posted by: babasdf at February 12, 2004 05:59 PM | PERMALINKAlabama Air National Guard: 700 men, no one saw Bush. Kind of sounds like the Freepers. Posted by: Social Scientist at February 12, 2004 06:00 PM | PERMALINKWHO WAS GWB FUCKKING? You don't often hear that sort of thing from goats. Posted by: Hamilton Lovecraft at February 12, 2004 06:16 PM | PERMALINKSomeone please look up: U.S. Patents awarded in states won by Gore vs. U.S. Patents awarded in states won by Bush And you will find that that Republicans not only freeload on the taxes of others but also the innovations. Posted by: wetzel at February 12, 2004 06:20 PM | PERMALINKIn You Know Me, Al by Ring Lardner, it's said of the title character, "You wanted to like the guy---until he started talking." That could be the case also with this site's "Al" whose smug affirmations of Bush innocence continue to enthrall his many tag-a-long readers. He's not quite so enthralling though when it comes to history. Watch for his allusions (which he often made here last night) to FDR, his citations of World War II, his testimonials on cold war fools and warriors. When that happens head for the hills. He's in way over his head. Posted by: Sam Spade at February 12, 2004 06:24 PM | PERMALINKThe timeline posted above was incorrect in one key detail: "May 1972 No. He was denied permission. He requested a transfer to a different group in Alabama in September and this transfer was granted. Dammit...this story is not that complicated. Is it really too much to ask that they get the details right? Posted by: PaulB at February 12, 2004 06:25 PM | PERMALINKWhile I came over today merely to warn "Al" that, thanks to that Slate link and the Freeperati gang bang that it has spawned on Kevin's comment boards, he's in danger of seeming sane and reasonable by contrast, let me stop to note something: George W. Bush has never been one who suffered from the dangers of "blending in with the crowd." I have friends who were at Yale with him: he had a bit of a reputation, entirely benign, except that most folks worried he'd drink himself to death and never take advantage of his charm and priviledge. He wasn't leading an anonymous existence. Those on the Blount campaign sure remember him, too, some more favorably than others. But they remember him, definitely, including Tom Blount, William Blount's son, who was irritated that he'd come in every morning to campaign headquarters, put his feet up on his desk, and brag about his drinking, which Tom Blount thought unseemly for a 26-year-old. In a pack of 30 to 50 seriously bored pilots at Donnally Air Base, with a bar nearby and chicks to chase, Bush would have been noticed. He enjoyed people to much, enjoyed parties too much, had too much opportunity to charm, not to have impressed. That's one of his political skills, making strangers like him, filling a room with his own presence. Now, it seems as though it's working to his disadvantage. Posted by: Brian C.B. at February 12, 2004 06:27 PM | PERMALINKSlightly OT, but has anybody else noticed that Tweety Mathews seems to be re-sprouting his long-lost journalistic cojones? Posted by: Brautigan at February 12, 2004 06:27 PM | PERMALINKShad wrote: "You seem remarkably incurious about following up on or correcting any aspects of your "reporting" that doesn't support your original suppositions" That's because Turnipseed's testimony is largely irrelevant, Shad. First of all, you have Turnipseed's administrator saying the same thing. And you have other people in Alabama also confirming. And you have not one person coming forward to say yes, they saw him. All Turnipseed is saying now is that he doesn't know. If that were the only evidence we had, you'd have a valid point. Since it's not, it really doesn't matter. Posted by: PaulB at February 12, 2004 06:27 PM | PERMALINKStan wrote: "Pathetic. I have no doubt we could dig up two or more Clinton haters who could swear they helped him...." And yet, you still cannot dig up even one person who loves (or hates or is indifferent to) Bush who will say that they worked with him in Alabama. Why is that, do you think? Posted by: PaulB at February 12, 2004 06:30 PM | PERMALINKHi, Greetings from the Old Europe :) i.e. Belgium! ;) One could argue every country gets the president it deserves, but that does not count in case of a stolen presidency - I guess. Somehow, everybody here hates the U.S.A. We boycott US-shit whenever we think it is appropriate, and the last think Europeans would think about is visiting the Far West, ever and or again. But that's easy. It must be a lot harder for you American people to see your own, once proud, nation being destroyed by one braincell. If I were a US-citizen, I would run for president myself. It can't be that difficult, looking at your history of retards in the White House. Good luck to your country and remember we sane Europeans will keep praying with you for the Devil to get his son back where he belongs: and that's NOT Texas, NOR Alabama, folks! Posted by: uuft at February 12, 2004 06:32 PM | PERMALINKImagine Bush at age 26, though. Single. Lots of drinking and.... Living free. Doors swing open wherever he goes. There is no accountability in his life, no one to answer to, except dad. He escaped the draft by joining the guard, then escaped the last 2 years of the guard by never showing up. (Or something.) If it's hard to imagine Bush in 1972, check him out 20 years later in 1992, as president's son, just before dad got creamed by the Clenis. And take particular note of how Bush throws his glass back at the end of the clip. What is that style; it a gesture as much as a movement. What does it say? http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/packageart/bush/bush_tsg.mov or click the link. Posted by: obe at February 12, 2004 06:33 PM | PERMALINKBoy, I love how the Busheviks are coming out in force here to try to squash this story! They must have got the word from Pravda^wThe Weekly Standard with Rove's current "talking points", 'cause they seem to all be spitting out the same identical "points" (gosh, wonder why?!). I especially love how they keep trotting out the same old discredited stuff from 2000 without taking into account any of the new information that has been released since then, and how they whine that anybody who criticizes their Great Leader is just being mean (oh wah! Do you want cheese with that whine?!). They started this knife fight back in 2000, when they smeared my man John McCain with that "illegitimate black child" crap in South Carolina. Now they're whining 'cause the guys they want to stab in 2004 pulled out a machete to counter their switchblade? What a bunch of losers. Posted by: BadTux at February 12, 2004 06:46 PM | PERMALINK"A. Rumors abounded about his cocaine use." Actually, NO ONE has claimed first-hand knowledge of Bush use of cocaine. No one has even written a news story claiming an anonymous source who claims knowledge of Bush cocaine use. Merely "rumors" -- meaning completely unsourced innudendo, with no more credibility (and a longer chain of "evidence") than me writing here and now, "I saw John Kerry soddomize a dead boy in a limo in front of his Beacon Hill townhouse." In contrast, 3 aquaintances of Bill Clinton have claimed direct knowledge of HIS cocaine use (including his brother, on a police surveillance tape; and Gennifer Flowers, to journalists).
He wouldn't have gotten into TANG with a felony. And if he got in
anyway due to undue influence, certainly the conspirators wouldn't have
put the felony into his records. "Thanks for the info, I didn't know that the affluent landowners of America favored Bush in the last election. There's only one stat that counts: Who got the most votes?" Actually, the only stat that counts is who got the most electoral votes, unfortunately. And let's not forget to count the Supremes ;) As far as Red state vs. Blue state stats, the most interesting I've seen is the comparison of federal revenue and federal spending by state. I don't have the numbers handy, but I was shocked by how much the Blue states are subsidizing the Reds. And it's only getting worse with the Repub pork machine running in high gear. And these guys have the nerve to complain about wealth redistribution in the tax code. Another way to put it: wrt the federal budget, Blue states contribute a huge surplus, while Red states incur a huge deficit. Unfortunately, with the Repubs in charge, the Red state deficit is now much larger than the Blue state surplus. I used to be able respect the Repubs, and occasionally throw a vote their way, in the name of fiscal responsibility, but those days are long gone. Feeling Blue in a Red state... For the trolls and freepers that infest this thread. Just to set the record straight. GWB had a lot of problems getting through pilot training. Once again, daddys influence helped a lot there. Get over it. He was hardly characterized by anyone in the know as even a mediocre "stick". "Put him in a fighter type aircraft for his daddy but keep him away from range work where he could kill someone other than himself". Posted by: Sky-Ho at February 12, 2004 07:12 PM | PERMALINKDavid Pittelli, "Actually, NO ONE has claimed first-hand knowledge of Bush use of cocaine." Yeah, but when he got asked point blank about it, what did he do ? First he refused to confirm or deny it. Later he would say only that "when I was young and irresponsible, I was young and irresponsible." Next he said that the issue wasn't relevant. Then he said that he wouldn't address "rumors." Then he said that he could pass a standard security check dating back seven years. Finally, he said that he could've passed the security check in his father's White House -- fifteen years. Though he had to think before specifying whether he could've passed it then or now. Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 07:16 PM | PERMALINKJeez, wonkette sure kicks some serious ass. I'm wet. www.wonkette.com Posted by: Yap at February 12, 2004 07:20 PM | PERMALINKWho's the current ambassador to China (you know the large country with a lot people)? I actually know Randt a little bit, as my mom is very good friends with his wife. Sadly, my answer to question two was the same as for the "President of the Democratic Party": some faceless drone. Posted by: Anarch at February 12, 2004 07:21 PM | PERMALINKAnarch, there are No presidents of parties anymore. They're chairman, that's why you came up blank. Now try again, Thanks for the info, I didn't know that the affluent landowners of
America favored Bush in the last election. There's only one stat that
counts: Who got the most votes? No that's not it. It's the person that gets the most Electoral College votes.
"Actually, NO ONE has claimed first-hand knowledge of Bush use of cocaine." So, uh, someone is going to go, "Yeah me an' George useta hoover that shit up, lemme tell ya a story..." Posted by: Yap at February 12, 2004 07:27 PM | PERMALINKDig it, dig this: The republicans invented something called ratfucking. Thanks to the Watergate scandal we got to see how it worked, although I'm sure it's much improved now. Even then, ratfucking included the tactic of FUBARing your Democratic foe during the primaries, and plant evidence and leads to make it look like another Democrat did it. This is how McGovern was blamed for something called the Canuck Letter, a slander on Muskie's wife. Muskie was the frontrunner at the time and was a much better candidate than McGovern, but his campaign was ratfucked to death because they wanted McGovern to be nominated instead. So, you party has a history of this, at the highest level possible, the presidency, and this happens to be the most corrupt administration since that one. So it is quite obviously not beyond them. In fact, they already committed fraud and voter disenfranchisement in Florida in 2000, so it would be par for the course. Posted by: M. Aurelius at February 12, 2004 07:27 PM | PERMALINKGreetings from the Old Europe :) i.e. Belgium! ;) One could argue every country gets the president it deserves, but that does not count in case of a stolen presidency - I guess. Somehow, everybody here hates the U.S.A. We boycott US-shit
whenever we think it is appropriate, and the last think Europeans would
think about is visiting the Far West, ever and or again. But that's
easy.
I'm surprised you speak English so well; I thought you'd only speak German. Oh, that's right, you're not ruled by Nazi Germany any more. You're welcome. Al Posted by: Al at February 12, 2004 07:31 PM | PERMALINKAl, don't you DARE take credit for something you didn't do ! Dear Belgian visitor, excuse our court jester Al's rudeness. Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 07:37 PM | PERMALINKAs a comparison, I went to law school with the son of a Senator. Now, although my law school class was quite large, it was divided up into sections, and this Senator's son was in my section. It took from September until FEBRUARY for me to find out he was a Senator's son. And that's with me seeing him in class virtually every day. This is actually believable. I went to the best law school in DC, and there were 2 sons of Senators in my section and the son of a network news anchor. Now, the network news anchor was a Junior, so he didn't have to say whose son he was. One of the Senators' sons was quite outgoing, and it wasn't long before everyone knew who his father was. The other Senator's son was quite quite and unassuming, however, and it was a while before word got around about his father. Now Al, which of one foregoing three do you think George W. Bush is NOT like? Posted by: John Dillinger at February 12, 2004 07:39 PM | PERMALINKJFH: Whether or not I know who the senior Senator from Michigan is, or the mayor of Atlanta, it would quickly become common knowledge among the reservists if the new guy who transferred in happened to be the son of one or the other.
The world in '72 was pretty politically conscious, what with a war in
Southeast Asia, an upcoming election, and all. I have a suspicion that
the guys Al Gore served with in Vietnam remember him -- partly because
his father was a Senator and partly because he was there. Al, just cause no right thinking people took the bait the first time, it doesn't give you another chance at the SAME 'OL SPIEL. Pull up your pants, your ass is showing. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Posted by: Yap at February 12, 2004 07:39 PM | PERMALINKWell JFH, if you do know jack about airplanes, then tell me how many real young pilots would just stop flying for no reason, for two years, when given the chance to fly jet fighters for free over friendly territory in exchange for committing to a few hours a month of duty. Sounds like heaven to me. As far as I know, bush never flew again as PIC in any type of aircraft. That is really quite remarkable for a pilot in his income bracket. He was probably scared and couldn't deal with it anymore, which drove him to the coke and drink. Typical son-of-a-pilot who can't hack living up to his daddy's wings. If you know airplanes, you've seen that story before. Posted by: M. Aurelius at February 12, 2004 07:47 PM | PERMALINKAlright, I'll break it down, there was no belgian vistor, it was sarcasm. Al got the joke cause he knows the technique, so did I. I like it. Al, you are making a spectacle of yourself. The whole damn world and 53% of US voters feel the same way as the chap from Belgium when it comes to your fearless leader, Captain AWOL. America deserves better. So does the rest of the world. We all know he is a liar. We all know he is a fake. We all know he
is running this country into the ground, like everything else he's ever
run. It took you six months to realize that guy was a senator's son.
How long will it take you to realize Bush is a total loser and unworthy
of your support? Someone please look up: Ask and you shall receive wetzel. Reproduce with these searches here: http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/search-adv.htm Gore States search: Bush States search: "Actually, NO ONE has claimed first-hand knowledge of Bush use of cocaine." Not so. Dannenhaur (sp?), Bush I's Chief of Staff, claimed that W. did coke in an interview with a Houston newspaper in 1999, I believe. He later recanted, saying he said no such thing. So that tale is dubious, but it's out there. Bush himself, claimed some BS story about how he "could pass a background check in my father's White House" which asked about drug use in the past 15 years, which puts us at 1974. Not exactly a firm, leadershiplike denial, mind you, but not a complete NO, I Never Took Drugs, either. Again, easily solved by Bush. Answer the Question. Did you take drugs. It's not that hard. Every one of the people who worked for me have had to do it. If you've ever applied for a job, you've probably had to answer similar questions. I find it amazing that people on the right, who would defend to their last breath employer's rights to ask these questions of their respective employees, get into spitting hissyfits if someone would dare ask them of a prospective public servant. I don't get it. Where's the consistency in that? Posted by: Monkey at February 12, 2004 08:00 PM | PERMALINKI was vaudevilled by Al and Yap. The disgrace... One Alabama guardsmen remembers Bush around: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37904-2004Feb12.html Of course, he's no doubt in the pay of Karl Rove, maybe even the same guy who smuggled the drawing of Bush's teeth into the Colorado archives... Posted by: rd at February 12, 2004 08:13 PM | PERMALINKAn ex-Guardsman Calhoun says he saw Bush reported for duty in Alabama. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37904-2004Feb12.html Aides Study President's Service Records A Republican close to Bush supplied phone numbers yesterday for an owner of an insulated-coating business in the Atlanta area, John B. "Bill" Calhoun, 69, who was an officer with the Alabama Air National Guard. Calhoun said in an interview that Bush used to sit in his office and read magazines and flight manuals as he performed weekend duty at Dannelly Field in Montgomery during 1972. Calhoun estimated that he saw Bush sign in at the 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group eight to 10 times for about eight hours each from May to October 1972. He said the two occasionally grabbed a sandwich in the snack bar. "He'd sit on my couch and read training manuals and accident reports and stuff like that," Calhoun said. "The pilots would read those so they would see what other guys did wrong. . . . He never complained about coming." Calhoun, a retired lieutenant colonel who said he was the group's flying safety officer and later its plans officer, described Bush as "a typical fighter pilot -- he was aggressive with his talk." "He said he wanted a career in politics," Calhoun recalled. He said Bush used to talk about how hard he worked on the Senate campaign. "He'd come in on a Saturday morning and say, 'Man, I've been going like crazy,' " Calhoun said. Calhoun said he is a Republican but has not talked to Bush since 1972, and has never talked to anyone from the White House. Problem is, from May to Oct 1972, Bush is only credited for service for one weekend (Sat and Sun, Oct 28-29). Calhoun's report of Bush coming in eight, ten time, telling him about the Senate campaign doesn't quite match up. But it's possible that he just got the dates wrong. Or maybe the service records got the dates wrong. Posted by: Mike at February 12, 2004 08:14 PM | PERMALINKAlright, finally. One guy. Well, I guess that settles it, I don't need to see any documenting evidence like unit muster records, etc. Nothing to see here, move along. I don't care if he was AWOL, I want to know: * Did he ever take drugs while in the Guard? That's what I'm curious about. Missing a few days here and there doesn't mean shit to me. I am MUCH more interested in why he missed his physical, and what happened to him after that. Posted by: Monkey at February 12, 2004 08:20 PM | PERMALINKAl, don't you DARE take credit for something you didn't do ! My COUNTRY did it. On behalf of my country, then, Belgium, you're welcome for our having liberated your country. Posted by: Al at February 12, 2004 08:27 PM | PERMALINKCalhoun's report of Bush coming in eight, ten time, telling him about the Senate campaign doesn't quite match up. Well, the White House was probably afraid to call and coach him, because they figured someone might found out. So Calhoun probably thought -- hey, the more the merrier. He's just trying to help. Posted by: Billmon at February 12, 2004 08:29 PM | PERMALINKtrick question, it's a chairman: Ed Gillepsie. No no, "Ed Gillespie" was that Martin Short character on SNL. You know, "Pat Sajak", "Totally Mental", etc ... Obligatory Turnipseed Comment: Lieutenant Bush should report to LtCol William Turnipseed, DCO, to perform Equivalent Training. Lieutenant Bush will not be able to satisfy his flight requirements with our group. Since w was grounded
at the time, he may not have had any flight requirements and may have
ended up in Captain Lott's unit after all. Not that any of them have
come forward either ... Re: DUmmies O.K., so Ltc. Burkett claims, with no corroboration, that the TXANG "cleansed" GWB's service records. This begs an obvious question: Did the TXANG somehow also "cleanse" the federal records in Denver and St. Louis in 1997 as well? And if so, how? Mr. Drum, you're beating a dead horse here. But, I guess I blogger has to do what he has to do to increase traffic, eh? And btw, it's a free country of course, but until you establish some sort of even the most rudimentary editorial code of conduct to establish measurable quality, spare us the pretense of being a "journalist". You're a blogger, and a partisan one, not a journalist. That said, keep pumping up those site meter stats! Hey bubba.. yeah, you moron! RE: Marky Until you find something to corroborate your hearsay, shut the hell up. Put up, or shut up, MORON! Posted by: bubba at February 12, 2004 08:58 PM | PERMALINKOh come on quit beating a dead horse here. Bush's payroll records prove that he was present for ... hold it, you say the payroll records show he was missing for six months? But he made that up, uhm, somewhere uhm ... oh look! In the sky! It's the Kenis! It's the Kenis! Oh the horror, those Democrats and their free willies, Americans all over are dying from shock that a politician might actually screw an intern, it's so... so.... unheard of! Nevermind that AWOL stuff, the Kenis is a threat to America, and must be destroyed before it deflowers each and every virgin in this great land! As for the election, Bush will win. I know because God told me so, just like he told Pat Robertson. So there. Yours in Christ, LOL. Calm down, Bubba! You need corroboration? Just look at the White House's own statements. Bubba, why don't you just admit that your liar in chief is not only
illegitimate (fraud in 2000), but likely a convicted felon as well. Time
will tell. Let's all chill, eh? All the ABB's know he'll lose, all the freeps know it too. Group hug. Kid myself, Al? Pretty weak, dude. Hang on I gotta pee. Posted by: Yap at February 12, 2004 09:06 PM | PERMALINKAl, I was Belgium. Don't blame Yap, please. See, I told the truth and I feel a lot better. Now if only our smug tosser, W, would cleanse his sins the same way. Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 09:11 PM | PERMALINKRE: Marky O.K., I'll calm down. Sorry. Now then, what records do you purport Bartlett has withheld, "cleansed", or whatever other unsupportable claim is currently in vogue? No hearsay, no conspiracy, just the name of the unreleased documents that you think would prove this spurious charge of "AWOL". And exactly how it supports such a claim. Posted by: bubba at February 12, 2004 09:11 PM | PERMALINKOf course congresscritters with actual DEAD interns in their offices don't merit a mention because they're repubs? Posted by: M. Tullius at February 12, 2004 09:14 PM | PERMALINKComparing whether you remember who this person is/was in govt, or who was from a notable family in a class in college is not even analogous. This is the military, and is funded by the govt. My dad was in the military (35'-57'), and said they always knew when the son of somebody (govt or militiary officer) of importance was coming to their ship. Notice in the article regarding the two guardsmen, that they were anticipating Dubya coming as they were given a heads-up. Think how the military works, no different than any major corp. If someone important is coming through, you know about it. Posted by: chris/tx at February 12, 2004 09:16 PM | PERMALINKRE: Marky Gee, don't you mean "liar-in-thief"? Damn, there for a moment I thought there might be at least one rational correspondent in this group-think wasteland of goose-stepping brownshirted automata. What a forlorn hope that was. Posted by: bubba at February 12, 2004 09:17 PM | PERMALINK"The problem is that William Turnipseed, the retired general who commanded the unit that Bush had transferred to, the 187th Air National Guard Tactical squadron at Dannelly Air National Guard base, says he doesn't remember ever seeing Bush. Well, maybe he just forgot? He was probably a busy guy, after all." Er, for someone following this so closely, how could you not know what just about every media outlet on earth has reported - that Turnipseed was not there very often, the Globe quite possibly distorted his words and if Bush says he's there, Turnipseed believes him. Posted by: HH at February 12, 2004 09:31 PM | PERMALINKBubba, do you even know what a brownshirt is ? Have you any sense of history. Because your short-term memory seems to have gone AWOL, no I take that back, it's actually deserted you. I saw no goosestepping, group-think, fascist behaviour here. sincerely - not that you'll remember -, "And they want to talk about someone getting laid! " Er, no Wes Clark does. Posted by: HH at February 12, 2004 09:33 PM | PERMALINKfunny no one has mentioned this one upthread (from the Globe story at PERMALINK): "Failure to take your flight physical is like a failure to show up for duty. It is an obligation you can't blow off," McGinnis said. (emphasis mine) fwiw, sounds like a definition of "AWOL" to me... Posted by: dm at February 12, 2004 09:35 PM | PERMALINKThe problem is not that Turnipseed doesn't remember him being around. The interesting problem is: If he moved back to Houston in November 1972, what the hell is he doing going back to Alabama to see a dentist in January of the following year? Makes no sense. He should already have shown up for duty in Texas. Posted by: pjcamp at February 12, 2004 09:36 PM | PERMALINKExactly what I keep asking. What the hell is going ON in late '72 early '73 anyway? We've got three sources that say Bush was there in January (the pay records, the dental exam and the ex-girfriend, if we assume she was talking about January). But Bush ISN't SUPPOSED TO BE THERE in january. His transfer was for Sept-Nov. The election had been over for 2 months, and Bush had already left town. So why the hell go back to Alabama? And we've got two sources (the pay records, and this new guy) that say the Bush attended drill earlier, but the two don't match each other. Sigh. New guy says ten times before Nov, records say nothing till Oct 28. WTF? Who the *&%^%# was the damn PAYMASTER for this unit? Is he dead? Cuz if not, we need to get a RE: Ch2 Yeah, I know what a "brownshirt" is. The Nazi SA. They were socialists - national socialists. Politically not that much different from the radically crazed, but politically isolated, kindred spirits that find refuge on internet conspiracy hubs like this. How's that for an answer, Herr Gauleiter? Posted by: bubba at February 12, 2004 09:51 PM | PERMALINKUSA Today: Bush's driving records disclosed More questions, more evidence of special treatment. Not good enough, Herr Süderner. They were the fascist tools. Hitler used them then killed their leader. The brownshirt are the GOP youth: devoid of critical thoughts, imbued with a false sense of patriotism, willing to excuse any abuse from their leader or country, and consistently putting themselves on the line in return for what ? Posted by: ch2 at February 12, 2004 10:02 PM | PERMALINKMy sister is in the Guard and has to get a mandatory physical every year (she is not a pilot). After blowing off his 1972 physical, did Bush ever have another one? Later that year, or during the next two years?? Posted by: m.c. at February 12, 2004 10:06 PM | PERMALINKYeah, I know what a "brownshirt" is. The Nazi SA. They were socialists - national socialists. Wrong. They were fascists. The first folks they killed were socialists and communists. That the party called itself the "National Socialist" party is meaningless, since it was openly opposed to socialism as part of its principles. It could have called itself the "German Yiddish Party" for all that it mattered, even though it killed Jews. Also, "National" means "of a nation, a place of birth" and "socialist" is "one for a society" which pretty means just about all of us, except the anarchists who hate nations. IOW, bubba does not know who the brownshirts were. Pick up a frigging encyclopedia. Posted by: Diamond LeGrande at February 12, 2004 10:19 PM | PERMALINKWhy don't we try a simple test? If George won't release his records, why not ask members of the Alabama Guard at the time to release theirs? If you look at the records for them, you can assume that George should have the same records. And if he doesn't... Also I do find it odd that no one remembers George, most Guard units
of the time had politically connected members and those types like to
socialize and network. George by all accounts, wasn't a shy retiring
type, he would have been noticed, and with his Dad running for President
just 6 years later, you think someone would have said "I think I
remember his son. Yeah same name and he really resembled his Dad." Of
course maybe I'm part of the great left-wing Vegan, Osama loving,
traitorous, liberal conspiracy... So when will republican youth start wearing uniforms? Will they carry banner portraits of Ernst Roehm? Why do they hate this country so? Posted by: bobbyp at February 12, 2004 10:34 PM | PERMALINKActually, NO ONE has claimed first-hand knowledge of Bush use of cocaine. No one has even written a news story claiming an anonymous source who claims knowledge of Bush cocaine use. Very true, David, and for this reason I wouldn't believe it - except that the witness who matters, George W. Bush, will only swear that he didn't take cocaine any time after 1974. When I was 10, I went through a phase of stealing. I'd take small
items from counters - candy and stuff - and run away. I got away with
it. After a few weeks, I stopped doing it. Now if you asked me, "Have
you EVER stolen anything?" I'd have to say, Yes. But I could truthfully
say "Not for over twenty-five years." That was Bush's answer. And who
knows? Maybe he's thinking of a few lines at a few parties - or maybe he
spent a couple of years coked out of his skull. We just don't know.
It's possible that those medical records that the White House doesn't
want to release would tell us... but I don't think Karl Rove wants them
released. Anarch, there are No presidents of parties anymore. They're chairman, that's why you came up blank. Now try again, I wasn't clear enough, it seems: I couldn't remember the chairman -- hence, the quotes on "President..." -- of either party. I could find out in 30 seconds flat if I cared, but I don't :) Posted by: Anarch at February 13, 2004 12:23 AM | PERMALINKAnarch, that's alright. :) Posted by: ch2 at February 13, 2004 12:33 AM | PERMALINK"But Bush ISN't SUPPOSED TO BE THERE in january. His transfer was for Sept-Nov. The election had been over for 2 months, and Bush had already left town. So why the hell go back to Alabama?" epist This is just one of the questions aint it? It seems like as this whole thing goes on, the more the WH tries to explain it, the more questions there are. Personally, I think that their move with the press briefings with Scott stonewalling aint the best, ie 'we answered that question in 2000...the pay stubs indicate he was paid, so he must have been paid for duty, no i will not answer whether we have proof he actually did the duty or whether we have proof'. Lines like this wont cut it. Especially after the Pres stammered he would show all his records on MTP. Anyway, I've always had a knack for overstating the obvious. Perhaps it's too easy to get caught up in this, its like political candy for a dissenter. Posted by: forgetting at February 13, 2004 12:38 AM | PERMALINKLines like this wont cut it. So true. Maybe after all these years, Bush really has forgotten how to cut lines. Posted by: Matt Davis at February 13, 2004 04:12 AM | PERMALINKRE: Diamond LeGrande You're a bloody idiot, devoid of historical or political knowledge! The National Socialist German Workers' party (Nazi party) espoused a nationalist totalitarian form of socialism, called Nationalsozialismus. It was the left wing of the party, lead by Gregor Strasser and Ernst Röhm, and their working class brownshirts (or Sturmabteilung, the SA) within the Nazi Party that supported socialist programs. And until the Night of the Long Knives, 29 June, 1934, it was the ascendent wing within the party. The Nazi Party, which started out as a worker's union after all, was against transnational corporations power vis-a-vis that of the nation state. This basic anti-corporate stance is shared with many mainstream center-left political parties, as well as otherwise totally opposed anarchist political groups. The main difference beween Nazism and other forms of socialism is that Hitler's socialism was nationalistic while other forms (such as Communism) were internationalist. That it was also transmogrified by his racialist theories does not alter it's original socialist theoretical underpinnings. Perhaps if you spent more time reading history and political science tracts, an less in ignorant online polemical rants, you wouldn't be so prone to making a fool of yourself. At some point, the Calpundit needs to invoke Godwin's law an clean up this rhetorical cesspool.
Dubya's daddy has an interesting history as a naval aviator, too. 1. George H. W. Bush's daddy was also an important right wing
politician with serious and long-standing financial commitments to
hostile foreigners. I figured out what "wingnuts" are, and there was a clarification about the overused "trolls", but what is a "freep" or "freeper"? Posted by: MatthewRMarler at February 13, 2004 07:23 AM | PERMALINKBubba: Note that German socialist and leftist parties bitterly opposed the Nazis, that Nazi propaganda was almost unremittingly anti-Marxist, and that one of their stated objections to Jews was that there was a "Judeo-Bolshevist" conspiracy for social collectivism. Even if we move from political rhetoric to economic practice, we see that the Nazis were corporatists, rather than statists. This doesn't mean that Strasser and Roehm did not have left-wing leanings, or that "left wing Nazis" didn't exist, but not all brownshirts were working class brownshirts, and very few Nazis were seen as (or saw themselves as) leftists. (BTW, Rohm was also a homosexual, but that cannot be taken to mean that the Nazis were a gay organization, or that they had common cause with homosexuals!) If you go to the Axis History Factbook and check out the History of the SturmAbteilung you will find that the brownshirts were formed as a group of bodyguards and enforcers. Many of the early members came from the right-wing Freikorps, and the early leadership (before the Night of the Long Knives) included such notable leftists as Walther Stennes, Hermann Goring, and Adolph Hitler. The brownshirts, like the blackshirts and the blueshirts, were most often thugs in the employ of right wing dictators... as such, they had very little in common with the people who regularly post on the Calpundit list. Posted by: Keith at February 13, 2004 07:53 AM | PERMALINKMatthewRMarler: "freep/freeper" - someone who is (or who sounds as if he is) a denizen of the freerepublic.com website. Check out http://www.freerepublic.com/ Posted by: Jesurgislac at February 13, 2004 05:03 PM | PERMALINK |
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