October 15, 2003
PANDERING TO RACISTS....In
case you're wondering what the Haley Barbour flap is about, I figure a
picture is worth a thousand words. So here's the picture.
The smiling guy in the middle is Haley Barbour, chairman of the
Republican party from 1993-1997 and currently a candidate for governor
of Mississippi. And where was Barbour when this picture was taken?
Why, at the Black Hawk Barbecue and Political Rally, held on July 19 to
raise money for — wink wink, nudge nudge — "private academy" school
Still not clear on what the problem is? The BHBPR is sponsored by
the fine gentlemen of the Council of Conservative Citizens, a bunch of
well-known racist neanderthals based out of Missouri. I think most of
my readers are probably aware of the CCC's handiwork, but in case you
aren't you might want to visit their website and browse around. You can start with "In Defense of Racism," and then head over to "the TRUTH about Martin Luther King," and then finish up with "Angry White Female" and a report from the Mississippi chapter about how Abraham Lincoln was an imperialist warmonger.
You get the picture. As they themselves put it,
"The C of CC recognizes that European Christian heritage is essential
for the survival of our standard of living and way of life. There is no
acceptable substitute for the civilization that has evolved through the
Greeks, Romans, Celts, and Anglo-Saxons."
And yet, as ArchPundit points out, Barbour is pretending that he is shocked — shocked! — to find out the CCC was behind this shindig and doesn't even know who these CCC characters are. Give me a break.
I am well aware that most Republicans aren't racist and are sick and
tired of hearing from Democrats about the Southern Strategy and
"codewords" and how their party panders to racists. I don't blame them.
But here's the deal: if you want us to stop accusing the GOP of
pandering to racists then stop pandering to racists, dammit.
Send a loud message that a guy who represented your entire party for
four years has no business hanging around with the human effluvia who
make up organizations like the CCC and then pretending he has no idea
what they're all about.
It won't wash, and it's time to knock it off.
Posted by Kevin Drum at October 15, 2003 05:58 PM
This has been bothering me all day: Can someone remind what, besides
freckles, the Celts have contributed to "European Christian heritage"?
And don't say "Enya."
That's funny, I went through the Haley Barbour for Governor of
Mississippi website, and didn't see anything about promoting racism or
outing Abraham Lincoln in his platform. In fact, his photo album shows
him shaking hands with several African-Americans. Therefore, I must
conclude that he will actually look out for the minority community in
Mississippi, unlike that woomanizing Communist dope fiend Martin Luther
King. Hooray for Haley!
The CCC is also supporting a proud Halocaust deniner Ernst Zudel. Link
"Can someone remind what, besides freckles, the Celts have contributed to "European Christian heritage"?"
Robert Burns? King Arthur? Stonehenge? James Joyce? Bagpipes? Daniel Davies?
Not that all this crap about "European Christian Heritage" isn't, well, crap.
Maybe there's some sort of Republican "Don't ask, don't tell" policy
when it come to receiving support from the likes of the CCC and other
CCC, KKK, CIA, FBI, it's all so confusing!
Why can't we put all this complicated stuff behind us and sit back and admire Arnold Schwarzenegger's buttocks.
There is no acceptable substitute for the civilization that has evolved through the Greeks, Romans, Celts, and Anglo-Saxons."
You know, as a combined product of three of those four civilizations,
I'm not entirely sure that lead poisoning, political corruption, the
chattelization of women and children, polymorphous perversity, militant
polytheism, poor personal hygiene and painting oneself blue whilst
sacrificing people to trees stack up to, say, algebra, astronomy and
medicine, but de gustibus, I guess.
All I know for sure is that pilaf beats the shit out of haggis (one
of your few dishes that could actually hypothetically have shit in it).
Kevin, can we expect similar admonishments when prominent Democrats,
such as the Senators from New York, go politicking with an undeniable
Jew-baiter who actually has incited murders; Al Sharpton? What would you
say if Sharpton is allowed to speak at the next convention? It seems
self-evident to me that both parties are quite comfortable with the
worst sort of slime in their midst, as long as it delivers a few crummy
Better yet, Will, when the Democratic candidate is asked about a
picture of him at a debate with Al Sharpton, he can pull a Haley and say
"I don't know where that picture came from" and "I don't even know who
that guy is".
No offense, but is this a new theme? Like the "Cal" in "Calpundit"
is just too painful, what with the dummkopf in Sacramento, so this will
turn into a big clearinghouse of information about other dumb state governments, other racist groups and other ideologically bankrupt political machines?
People forget, but Little Green Footballs used to be a nifty little
web design site before, you know, it got bitten by that rabid
radioactive vampire bat. Same deal here? Please say no.
Heh, this reminds me of the ANSWER marches. Marching with avowed and diehard commies? I didn't know!
These southern republicans deserve all the shit they get. What the
hell is wrong with them, they just give you lefties more read meat.
I don't know that the idea that "European Christian heritage is
essential for the survival of our standard of living and way of life" is
that absurd, as we are living in a society defined by its European
Christian heritage. I just don't see it in any danger, as it is the
dominant culture in the world.
What threatens European Christian heritage? Salsa? Hip-hop music? These guys are kooks.
This has been bothering me all day: Can someone remind what, besides
freckles, the Celts have contributed to "European Christian heritage"?
ah hem...Whiskey...Beer...the aforementioned bagpipes...too many
great bands and musicians to count...did I mention
whiskey?...Scotch...peotry and limericks...Braveheart...Austailis (in a
roundabout way)...thank you.
Nice backhand return, Norbizness.
Bottom of the 4th, Cubs up 5-3. Pray for Steve Bartman.
(Attention Republicans: Bartman is white!)
One word: haggis.
As for the main point, i don't know... how is it that you can claim
that it should have been obvious to Barber that they were racist
neanderthals, when it took you 3 paragraphs to explain it to us. the
occam's razor type presumption is he probably asked his campaign
"So what is this about?"
"They're raising money for school buses."
"Okay sounds good to me."
And that was it. You are going to need a little more in the way of
proof to show him to have been knowingly pandering to racists in my
See what you are missing about these bigots is that they lie. They
lie like dogs, to try to get you to start agreeing with them on
something that isn't really controversial, in the hopes they will get
you to agree on the nasty stuff.
Not to mention those darn Irish monks helped everyone out during the
Dark Ages: _How the Irish Saved Civilization_, by Thomas Cahill
Please change the subject. Instead, let's talk about Bill Clinton,
Al Sharpton, Cruz Bustamante, ANSWER, that congressman from Virginia,
whats-her-name from Georgia, um whatever.
Ehh, toytoytoytoy.. sure and begoran you're a lovely lass, Diane.
For the sake of the blessed St. Pat, pray now for Steve Bartman in the
dear lad's hour of need..toytoytoytoytoy.
Will: actually, I agree with you, although I usually get a fair amount of shit for saying so.
For various reasons that I don't feel like going into in detail right
now, Sharpton is not, in fact, as bad as the CCC. What's more, he's
also got some redeeming features, unlike the CCC.
However, I would personally be happier if we stopped associating with him.
A.W.: The CCC has a long history with Mississippi politicians; there
was a flare-up involving Trent Lott and these guys back in 1999 which
was extensively covered (http://www.fair.org/extra/9903/lott.html).
Barbour was the RNC Chairman at the time (or just got done being the RNC
Chairman), and also from Mississippi.
This background, of course, is being provided on the assumption that you weren't being totally sarcastic.
Part of the problem with the whole Buses for Private Schools thing is
that Private Schools in Mississippi generally exist so that parents can
send their children to a school with no or very very few blacks. When
integration became enforced a lot of these "academies" popped up all
over the place.
I grew up in Vicksburg, MS and I went to the public schools for those
living in the city limits. The school was about 90% black, yet well
more than 10% of the kids in Vicksburg were white. An awful lot of the
white kids went to the private schools.
Can someone remind what, besides freckles, the Celts have contributed to "European Christian heritage"?
Didn't you know? The Irish saved civilization!
Yeah, my Byzantinist late uncle is looking down at me from heaven and
is quite unhappy with me now. But it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make
for a glib comeback. :)
Julia, if you've never painted yourself blue before conducting a
human sacrifice, you really don't know what you're talking about.
''It seems self-evident to me that both parties are quite comfortable
with the worst sort of slime in their midst, as long as it delivers a
few crummy votes.'
No doubt true, but that's not the argument. Barbour is hanging out
with the CCC so he can make an easy and deniable appeal to racists. If
some CCCesque individual was at the helm of the Mississippi Bowling
Guild, it would be unfortunate but not the same thing as what Barbour is
Democrats are not sharing time with Sharpton so they can get tie up
the anti-semite vote. They're using him so they can pander to
african-americans. I'm not too happy about some of the tactics used in
this endeavor, and it is hypocritical to ignore them. But it's
farfetched, however, to think that the interests of anyone who would
support a Dem due to a Sharpton approval are the same as the person who
would support Haley Barbour because he hangs out with the CCC.
I also find it incredibly hard to believe that Sharpton will speak at
the Democratic Convention. Or if he does, in a time-slot that anybody
sees. That seems more like a rumor gleefully circulated by the right.
Well, Kevin, Sharpton has actually incited people to commit murder,
and there are corpses mouldering in graves as a result, so I would find
interesting an explanation as to how much worse the CCC is; perhaps they
have incited murders as well, but once any person has done that, they
can't get any lower in my estimation.
Thomas, go ahead and rationalize regarding Democrats who willingly
appear with a person who has incited murders with the most vile
Jew-baiting, for nothing more than electoral gain. Personally, I won't
associate with either major party for precisely this reason; there is no
behavior that is too vile for either party to tolerate, as long as it
tolerating it goes down well with an important constituency, and doesn't
sufficiently offend another constituency. These people would march with
the Nazis in Skokie if they could get away with it, and if the Nazi
vote would put them over the top.
Why don't you nice republicans just say "yes, this is bad" and then
tomorrow you can return to your regularly scheduled "Look!
It might give you a bit more credibility on the latter. As it stands,
it seems like all your carping about racism is purely about politics.
I'm sure that must not be the case, of course.
More seriously: a couple years back 40% of Alabamans voted to keep
interracial marriage illegal. (That's a pretty hard figure based on an
actual election ; the national number is 20% in favor of making
interracial marriage illegal, based on polling).
If those 40% are not racists, the word has no meaning. Are they Republicans, Democrats, or a mix?
Well, there's some evidence that they're Republicans. When the Civil
Rights Act passed in the 60's, gradually the white South became solidly
Republican. I don't think it's because they developed an admiration
for Abraham Lincoln; as it happens, even today Southern Republicans hate
Lincoln. (Evidence from the CCC, and also from Richmond Virginia,
where many mainstream Republicans strongly resisted an attempt to erect a
statue of Lincoln -- for those of you just arrived from Mars, Lincoln
was the founder of the Republican Party, more or less).
So is this just one of those things, or do the Republicans court the
CCC-types? Well, look at Rove. Look at Ashcroft. Look at Lott (still
an influential Senator). Look at G.W. Bush at Bob Jones U.
A healthy chunk of the core Republican constituency is racist. Deal with it.
Now Sharpton. He's made race-baiting anti-Semitic statements, one of
which led to riots in which people were killed. On the other hand, he
holds no political office and high office in the party. And more
important, the Democratic strategy does not depend on courting the
anti-Semitic vote. On the contrary, it depends on courting the Jewish
vote as well as the black vote. (Sharpton is black and anti-Semitic,
but most blacks are not anti-Semitic; they vote for Democrats for other
reasons -- for example, because of the CCC Republicans. And as for
Farrakhan, he's a Republican as often as not)
OK, how about the elder Gore and WV Sen Byrd. Weren't they racists
once? Yeah, but they changed. That's how they could stay Democrats.
Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond became Republicans.
The "Democrats are the real racists" or "Democrats are just as racist
as Republicans" arguments are too phony to take seriously, though of
course, like many dishonest arguments, they can "work".
Stuff as dishonest as that reduces political debate to the
shit-flicking level. It's because of that kind of stuff that I've become
an advocate of incivility. Why bother to argue, over and over again,
that 2+2=4? Why waste your time?
Some of you have heard all this from me before, because when I see
the same dumb, dishonest argument over and over again I tend to respond
in the same way ovwer and over again. And I expect to see that bullshit
again in the future. And if I have the energy, I'll repeat that same
boring thing all over again: 2+2=4.
Thanks Will. I'm glad we've changed the subject. Now Kevin, could
you please make a few edits to your post so that it discusses Sharpton
instead of Barbour. I'd appreciate it.
"Not to mention those darn Irish monks helped everyone out during the
Dark Ages: _How the Irish Saved Civilization_, by Thomas Cahill"
Really good book.
Zizka: A healthy chunk of the core Republican constituency is racist. Deal with it.
All the Republican genuflections at places like Philadelphia (Miss.) and Bob Jones University lend support to the assertion.
Quite depressing, really.
Grumpy: This has been bothering me all day: Can someone
remind what, besides freckles, the Celts have contributed to "European
I'm actually pretty sure I'm not a Republican. Checked last night in
the shower -- no lumps. I'm equally sure that "Aztlan" means just
that, regardless of how you justify it, and further that pale males play
for the home team just like everybody else. Raise your hand if you're
surprised! Raise your hand if you're genuinely stupid! But I repeat
You give 'em driver's licenses and free medical care and they reward
you by voting a Nazi into office. I feel your pain! I'm just wondering
about the shape of things to come, that's all.
Barbour's conduct is admittedly unsavory, but Republican racial
pandering is, on the broad scale, fairly trivial compared to that of the
Dems. Reference to the Reverend Bacon, sorry, Reverend Sharpton is the
natural Republican comeback and for good reason. It's no reproach to
the Dems that he exists, but it's utterly shameful that every Democrat
candidate for president would share a stage with this outrageous
racebaiter. It's utterly shameful that the average Democrat tries to
rationalize their being on the stage. Face it. Republicans are your
moral superiors. Barbour's pandering might slide by in Mississippi, but
the national party would never tolerate their candidates sharing a
stage with David Duke. Whatever you may think of Lee Atwater and the
Southern Stategy in the 70's, in 2003 it's the Dems that have to
disseminate inflammatory racial lies every election cycle in order to
have a chance of winning an election today. Think I'll go burn a black
Vidkun Quisling: Barbour's pandering might slide by in Mississippi, but the national party would never tolerate ...
But ... but ... Haley Barbour was the Chairman of the national Republican party!
You're making my head hurt.
The Republicans always behave responsibly. After expressing regret
that a white supremacist failed to win the presidency, Trent Lott was
demoted to the 4th most powerful job in the Senate.
God Bless Republicans.
The CCC is an outgrowth of citizen's councils Will. You know, those
who were charegd to make sure the "unsavory" don't vote. And the CCC is
hardly a new thing, it comes up all the time, but we'll just ignore it.
Ashcroft has a number of ties with the CCC, being from Missouri.
That last post was a keeper Zizka.
Everytime a Republican's racism is exposed, the conservatives whip
out moral equivalency. I thought they were against that? Well I also
thought they were against deficit spending, subsidies, big government,
nation building, increased entitlement spending....uhm how much time do
we have here?
Republicans made an immoral pact with their adoption of the Southern
Strategy. Guys, take some personal responsibility (that should be on the
list above) and own up to it.
Celts contribution: Guinness - I think that is almost enough to qualify us for some sort of special superior status.
Then again, African-Americans gave us Marvin Gaye, Aretha Franklin,
Stevie Wonder (pre-Ebony & Ivory), Smokey Robinson, John Lee
Hooker...I could go on. And that's just the field of music. Damn those
superior black people! They are better at everything!
Hey, if sharing the stage is a big criterion, how do you explain Pat
Buchanan's candidacies and sharing the stage in debate forums, and the
significant greasefires of support for him and his racist racebaitin'
The Western Culture we love so much has very graciously assimilated
people of all colors. At the very high end of our culture, to take
classical music for an example, there is a preponderance of non-white
faces. Could it be that white people are too busy attending NASCAR
events and singing treacly praise music at their megacongregation
churches to seriously delve into the works of Bach, Brahms, and
Beethoven? What gives, anyway?
I suspect that the BBB composers make your typical conservative,
educated or not, uncomfortable. Universal brotherhood? Disillusion with
and rejection of Napoleonic tyranny? Abandonment of worldly struggles,
Why does Brahms hate America?
Y'all should look up H.L. Mencken's essay "The Anglo-Saxon."
He wouldn't have thought much of the CCC, either.
I'll second Atrios here. I actively try and drive the dirtbags out
of the Democratic Party--a few of the CofCC clowns used to be Dems in
the South Side of Saint Louis. Minus one alderman we've droven them out
to the Republicans. I worked to raise awareness that Republican Board
of Alderman candidate had ties to the them and she lost. A little more
work and they'll just be gone here. Take some responsibility and get
rid of the pieces of garbage.
tsk, Zizka. Don't assume.
Hey, you know what else all these "civilizations" have in common?
No monotheism til much, much later.
Let's hear it for paganism, foundation of our civilization.
Both major parties have major problems. Some of the problems are more morally repugnant than others.
I'm attending the caucuses in my state this time around. I hope that
the intellectual heirs of Lincoln, Roosevelt and Eisenhower do the same.
Theirs is a heritage of compassion, steadfastness, defense of our
union, conservation, efficiency in government, pragmatic social reform,
civil service, defense of labor, economic fairness, service to country
and prescience in it's warning of the threat to democracy posed by the
military industrial complex.
It's still a winning formula.
Dean has raised a rabble which, if they succeed, will a go a long way
toward breathing new life into the Democratic party. There's no reason
why the party of Lincoln cannot do the same thing. If we are cursed (in
my opinion) with a two party system (as opposed to IRV), a strong,
competitive progressive Republican party is essential to the long term
health of the country.
People need to stop these Sharpton comparisions. Sharpton doesn't
even make the New Hampshire primary polls. Pat Buchanan won the 1996
Republican New Hampshire primary! If Dole had gotten ill during the
primaries it would have been Clinton vs Buchanan in 1996
Yah, the Celts get worthy credit for Guiness, but I believe beer has been traced back as far as ancient Sumer.
Is it just me, or are we seeing a resurgence of the Know-Nothing Party?
It's become the standard Administration response to everything from
false pretenses for war, to revealing covert agents, to association with
neo-nazis... hell, we've seen it in their followers, too, with Glenn's
"It's just too complicated!" response to the Lott and Plame debacles.
I'm no fan of the CCC, but when you object to quotes like "The C of
CC recognizes that European Christian heritage is essential for the
survival of our standard of living and way of life. There is no
acceptable substitute for the civilization that has evolved through the
Greeks, Romans, Celts, and Anglo-Saxons." you just make yourself look
Do you deny that this is our heritage?
I mean I'm descended originally from Russian Jews, but culturally I get pretty much 100% of who I am from those sources.
Do you object to the reference to "European Christian Heritage"?
Well, unless you're a pretty orthodox Jew you probably celebrate
Christmas at least a bit... I put up a Christmas Tree, not a menorah,
because Christmas is more fun.
If you think the CCC is wrong what culture would you substitute? The
French? Maybe Democrats would, but not Republicans. The Arabs?
Going to kill your female relatives for sleeping around? Africa? Well,
look at Africa... China? The food's good and the beer's cheap, but
I'm not a real fan of the culture. What do you suggest?
It's about heritage. And history. And states rights. And sticking up
fer kin. That's just how things are done around here, you best get on
out if you know what's good fer ya. You hear me boy?
Celtic contributions? Well, the Celts, at various times, lived over
much of Europe and lands eastward. Their traditions and legacies imbue
many civilizations with light, music, beauty and good whisk(e)y. They
were gradually pushed westward by various unsavoury elements until they
survived only on the far western edge of Europe; Ireland, the highlands
of Scotland and so on. They have influenced our art, our music, our
food, and our drinking. It is said that God gave the Irish whisky so
that they would not take over the world.
Umm. I'm going on aren't I. Good titles for further research provided on request.
MKK--Celt, Saxon, Cherokee, and who knows what
More dishonest rationalizations. Yeah, it is so unimportant for the
Democrats to be seen with someone who incites murder (by the way, he has
done not once, but TWICE, but then again, what's a few murders when
there are votes to be had!) that any Democrat who wants so much as to be
elected dogcatcher in New York makes a point to schedule a photo-op
with the Sharpton. And gee, I know how silly it is to actually raise the
issue of prominent Democrats associating with someone who incites
murder, when really, it is only the slime that Republicans associate
with for electoral gain that is a proper topic of conversation. The
moral myopia of people who belong to political parties never ceases to
amaze. You people spend tons of energy informing your opponents of their
moral flaws, but wouldn't consider for a moment saying to your own
political leadership "Do a photo-op with that shitbag one more time, and
I'll never write you a check again!"
Christianity comes from your heritage, not theirs.
I would agree with you Will, but I don't know much about Sharpton.
I'm not one for the moral "tests" that people seem to like putting the
other party, through.
I'll go look for a credible source. I think there must a different
interpretation of the event than yours, or else the Democratic
candidates should definitely speak up.
"There is no acceptable substitute for the civilization that has
evolved through the Greeks, Romans, Celts, and Anglo-Saxons." you just
make yourself look stupid. Do you deny that this is our heritage?
Sure. This is why we're all writing in Ogham instead of those ugly
letters that first evolved from somewhere around Baghdad and using I II
II IV instead of that fancy Hindu-Arabic numerology.
If you want to deny your Hindu-Arabic cultural heritage that's fine
with the rest of us, but your computer will stop working, because you
won't be able to use zero any more. Zero has nothing to do with heritage
from the Greeks, Romans, Celts, or Anglo-Saxons.
World heritage. We're a big human race. We've done a lot,
collectively, that we can all be proud of. Why restrict yourself to
being proud only of the things that people with less melanin in their
Andrew, do a google search on the words "Sharpton", "Crown Heights", and "Freddy's".
I'm no fan of the CCC, but when you object to quotes like "The C
of CC recognizes that European Christian heritage is essential for the
survival of our standard of living and way of life. There is no
acceptable substitute for the civilization that has evolved through the
Greeks, Romans, Celts, and Anglo-Saxons." you just make yourself look
Do you deny that this is our heritage?
No -- well, not for me at least -- but I deny your attempt at a
logical question between those two remarks. The Chinese, Muslims and
Hindus got along reasonably for a millenia or more with civilizations
that were, in their time, the equal of any other on the planet. I
wouldn't choose to be living in any of their dominions right now
(although I am, in fact, a resident of China; long story) but that's not
to say that their heritages are in any way inferior to mine, just that
those ugly letters that first evolved from somewhere around Baghdad...
Didn't the Roman alphabet descend from the Greek alphabet, which was
in turn descended from the Phoenician? [Which in turn descended from
the Sumerian hieroglyphs, IIRC, but that wasn't an alphabet but a
syllabary.] That technically makes it "around Baghdad", I suppose, but
at least 1600 years before it was known by that name...
Addendum: omniglot.com has a good collection of orthographies, btw.
Obviously Barbour knew what was up, and obviously the CofCC (which was chosen to alliterate with the KKK) is slime.
And most internet libertarianish people (Reason, Instapundit, etc.) would condemn them as unreconstructed racists. For example:
The thing is that white racists are to the right what
communists/socialists & nonwhite racists are to the left...an
unsavory base that is often pandered to in order to get votes.
The situations are only considered asymmetrical because people have
been conditioned to believe that communists "weren't that bad" (despite
the 100 million dead - still and counting in North Korea, Cuba, etc.) or
"are irrelevant today" (despite the fact that ANSWER et. al. were
behind the antiwar rallies). And others believe that nonwhite racists
don't exist (but they do - Sharpton, MECHA, etc.)
Everyone condemns the Klan, the CCC, etc. unhesitatingly,
particularly when the Republicans start trying to earn their votes. We
just gotta jump on ANSWER & Sharpton/MECHA/etc. when the
left-liberals in the Democratic party start going for *their* votes.
Calpundit...amen to some of the above comments. It's pretty hard to
take you seriously unless you just as vehemently condemn Al Sharpton.
And we know that's not going to happen. And frankly, it's a big reason
why many Americans won't take any of the current Democratic candidates
seriously. If one of them, say, Joe Lieberman or John Edwards, really
wants the nomination, he should actually show some conviction and refuse
to appear on a debate with Sharpton (also Braun...because she's a
crook, if not a racist). Remind everyone about the Tawana Brawley
nonsense, and everything else. Oh, sure, Sharpton would complain that
Edwards or Lieberman would be racist. but it's not racist to expose a
And the above poster is absolutely wrong about Sharpton speaking at
the convention. He most certainly will speak at the convention, because
anyone who knows anything about Al Sharpton knows that if they don't
let him, he will kick and scream, long and loud, and make it a racial
issue. That will be the Democrats' worst nightmare at convention time.
Dean, Kerry, Gephardt, et al., would be doing the party a huge favor if
they would stand up to him right now and run him out of town. I
guarantee you if Dean, Kerry, Gephardt, Edwards, Clark, and Lieberman
collectively refused to appear in a debate with Sharpton, that would be
the end of it. But they don't have the convictions, or the guts, to do
How could anyone take the claims of these uneducated, homophobic,
anti-semitic white supremacist morons about "the civilization that has
evolved through the Greeks, Romans, Celts, and Anglo-Saxons" seriously?
Apart form the Bible, they don't seem to have read much of that
"heritage" they're blabbering about. Otherwise they couldn't be what
they are and say what they say.
And Mike, how and why exactly is French culture not a part of that
"heritage" so that it could serve as a substitute to it? You are just
being silly here, right?
INSTEAD OF COMPLAINING ABOUT REPUBLICANS. PUNISH REPUBLICANS.
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Spread the word.
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You will refrain from doing business with these 3 entities until Arnold
Schwarzenegger resigns leaving Cruz Bustamante to take office as
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If you don’t like Sharpton, then you should especially hate the CCC
and, indeed, all white supremacist groups for helping create them in the
first place. I personally look forward to more Republican
strengthening and nurturing of groups like the CCC so that we might grow
Well, I was born and raised in Birmingham, Alabama, where racist
groups have occasionally been in the news over the years, and I never
heard of the C of CC. And I'm 46 years old. So I find it very
plausible that Barbour never heard of them. You might find that hard to
believe out there in California. The proof is in his reaction
When I see David Duke challenge Bush for the nomination, and George
Bush welcome Duke into a debate as an equal...then I'll be concerned.
Because that's how far you have to go to find an equivalent to the
Democrats welcoming Sharpton with open arms. Haley Barbour isn't
exactly openly appearing on the national stage with racists portrayed as
his equals. That's exactly what Dean, Kerry, et al. are doing. And
the above poster who likened Sharpton to Buchanan must not have been
alive back then, or not more than a child. Tawana Brawley and the Crown
Heights affair make Pat Buchanan look like the Pope by comparison.
Robert: First, the CCC was referred to repeatedly during the
Pickering confirmation battles. This was a huge story both nationally
and Mississippi. Second, oddballs run in primaries when they think that
other candidates don’t represent their views. That’s why Buchanan ran
and that’s why Sharpton is running. The fact that David Duke and like
candidates don’t run in a Republican primaries means that the people who
would otherwise support such candidates a) simply aren’t voting, or b)
feel that their views are represented by mainstream Republican
Will: Isn’t it illegal to incite murder? If so, why wasn’t Sharpton
prosecuted? You sound an awful lot like Clinton blaming the Oklahoma
bombing on “right-wing talk radio.”
This has been bothering me all day: Can someone remind what, besides
freckles, the Celts have contributed to "European Christian heritage"?
Mary Kay has a good answer:
They were gradually pushed westward by various unsavoury elements until
they survived only on the far western edge of Europe; Ireland, the
highlands of Scotland and so on. They have influenced our art, our
music, our food, and our drinking.
But there is more.
There was an extensive wave of Scots-Irish settlement in the back
country of the South in the decades before the American Revolution.
Many Southerners celebrate their scottish ancestry, in addition there is
a (pretty goofy) scholarly group who study the "celtic" nature of
Southern backwoodsmen and argue that southern social practices,
assumptions and the like are essentially "celtish".
I was a member for a while in a Scottish heritage society, (I am
distantly related to John C Calhoun), and one thing that I noticed was
that most of the chapters and most of the members were east of the
Rockies and South of the Mason-Dixon line.
More recently, and more to the point, is that Scottish games and
scottish heritage festivals across much of the south were, for a long
time from the sixties through the nineties, gathering places for white
pride racists. I went to the Richmond and Alexandria games in Virginia,
which were not too bad, but I have heard stories about the games at
Stone Mountain and elsewhere.
The point: there is a legitimate place for ethnic pride and ethnic
identity in a plural society. Many people, including many southerners
celebrate their ethic heritage. Some people, especially in parts of the
South, conflate white identity with Scottish or "celtic" heritage. For
a while this conflation was eased by the strong racial awareness that
was prevalent at Scottish games and in clan associations. When Nathan
Bedford Forrest et al formed the Ku Klux Klan they were drawing on
Victorian fascination with the Scottish clans, and latter day members of
the clan societies (clan Monroe, Clan Colquhoun, etc) can easily have
blurred into membership or support of Klan societies (note spelling.)
I think I need to blog on this myself, later today.
When the Democratic party puts Al Sharpton in a leadership role,
gives him power over how the money is spent and promotes him for
executive office, I'll see an equivalency with this situation.
An equivalency in their willingness to demagogue race is not terribly relevant otherwise.
Trent Lott's family connections with the CofCC were on the front page
of all the papers for weeks while the controversy raged over bringing
down the formerly all-powerful Senate Majority Leader, a man who held
the whip in Republican party politics for years.
I really think you folks need to drop the "he didn't know" argument,
unless you think that Barbour somehow missed it when one of the leaders
of the party he ran was overturned by a national scandal that
potentially endangered a midterm election and led to a vote of no
confidence from the president.
You're concerned about Al Sharpton and I don't like him either.
Sharpton, though, is a luny fringe candidate, who does not and will not
ever have a chance either in the Democratic leadership or any Democratic
administratition. Meanwhile another luny fringe candidate has become
the attorney general of the US. He, who is in charge of the civil
authority in the US, has this to say about his understanding of
"There's a difference between a culture that has no king but Caesar,
no standard but the civil authority, and a culture that has no king but
Jesus, no standard but the eternal authority. When you have no king but
Caesar, you release Barabas — criminality, destruction, thievery, the
lowest and the least. When you have no king but Jesus, you release the
eternal, you release the highest and the best."
So the guy in charge of the courts, the constitution, civil
liberties, the police and security in the US "has no king but Jesus".
This guy has the following to say to the "Southern Partisan" about the civil war and "revisionism":
Your magazine also helps set the record straight. "You've got a
heritage of doing that, of defending Southern patriots like [Robert E.]
Lee, [Stonewall] Jackson and [Jefferson] Davis. Traditionalists must do
more. I've got to do more. We've all got to stand up and speak in this
respect or else we'll be taught that these people were giving their
lives, subscribing their sacred fortunes and their honor to some
The guy who is in charge of ensuring that the federal constitution is
obeyed sees himself as a soldier in the battle for state's rights:
"Southern Partisan: That's great. I did not realize that you'd been such a big part of fighting the states' rights fight.
Senator Ashcroft: Well, frankly, there aren't any big parts. There
are just a lot of soldiers, and I happened to have been one of the
soldiers at whom they fired a shot..."
This guy met CCC member and agitator against racial integration
Thomas Bugel to discuss the plight of fellow CCC member Dr. Charles
"Tom" Sell, convicted of plotting the murder of an FBI agent and a
federal witness. The CCC was satisfied that Ashcroft promised to help
even though ""those efforts had to be put on the back burner when his
2000 reelection campaign for Senate began."
So why are you worrying so much about a luny who will never play a
significant role in US politics? Should you not rather worry about the
luny who is in charge?
above post as a respones to Robert
Mm, if Barbour didn't know who the CCC was, how did he find the event
where he was photographed with their leaders. And as others have said,
Barbour is a national figure.
Will Allen is a libertarian so he gets a free ride. But within the
two-party system, the Republicans rely on getting the CCC racist vote
and the Democrats do not rely on getting the Sharpton racist vote. On
the contrary, they rely on the Jewish vote, and they've been getting it
so they must be something right. If the big Democratic candidates start
sending out coded anti-Semitic messages, then we'll have a problem.
Whoever said that the Republican racist pandering is less than the
Democratic pandering needs to go to the store and buy themselves a
People are on a platform with Sharpton because they're debating against him and running against him.
Scots are a major group in Canada, especially B.C. where my brother lives.
If anyone disputes my characterization of Sharpton as someone who has
incited multiple murders, do the search I suggested above, and read for
yourself. When one condemns one's political opponents for pandering to
racists, while one's own political leadership panders to someone who has
incited murders through the most vile Jew-baiting, one's complaints
ring hollow, because one's actions have revealed that any moral
reference point has been abandoned, and the only principle that really
matters is winning, pure and simple. If Sharpton is such a fringe
chracter, why do the Senators from NY do photo-ops with him? To what
possible end? Do the Senators from NY normally politik with fringe
characters, because they have nothing better to do with their time?
Unitl the political parties are willing to make a good faith effort to
police their own grounds, any complaints about the condition of their
opponents' is mere empty chatter.
I'll trade you Haley "CCC" Barbour for Jesse "Hymietown" Jackson, Al
"Tawana Brawley" Sharpton, Robert "KKK" Byrd, Ashley "Do Boy" Bell, Cruz
"Nigger" Bustamante, Diane "He's married to a white woman" Watson,
Hillary "You fucking Jew bastard" Clinton, Bill "Jews, that's J-E-W-S"
Kinney, Charles "I want to slap a white man" Barron, and Louise "White
man is the enemy" Farrakhan.
Thanks for the hypocrisy.
Celtic music is beautiful and Celtic mythology is glorious. I am a
militant polytheist. I wish the polytheists of the ancient world had
been more militant. "European Christian heritage" is an oxymoron,
Christianity was imposed on the European pagan cultures through torture
and murder over a period of over a thousand years. "Christmas", i.e.,
Yule, the Winter Solstice, was pagan not Christian. Easter is also
pagan in origin.
David, hon, you really have to work on changing your responses just a
hair between posts, or someone might think you're reciting talking
points without reading the responses.
Do you by chance work in telemarketing?
You may remember the amusing incident in the 2000 runup when Al Gore
wanted to conduct a back door romance with Sharpton and Sharpton
insisted that he use the front door. Sharpton made clear that he would
punish Gore if Gore didn't publicly give him a big wet kiss, and Gore of
I love the line repeated in several of the posts here that Democrats
don't rely on Sharpton's constituency so they're not tainted by him.
This takes a special kind of Orwellian doublethink. The only reason
that anyone would appear on a stage with Al Sharpton is terror of
offending his constituency--the not insignificant numbers of blacks
voters who are obsessed with race and eat up any paranoid racist lie
that Sharpton and the other race hustlers like him spread. It is an
inconvenient fact that there a number of blacks who are willing to
believe that AIDS is spread by Jew doctors, and the Democrats are
dependent on the votes of such people. Democrats have so marginalized
themselves with the larger electorate that they can only win a national
election and most statewide elections by getting a large black turnout
and 90% of the black votes, including the votes of the scum Sharpton
It's politics 101 in 2003, and it doesn't matter how you spin it.
Any Democrat who wants to win has to smile and give a big hug to this
loathesome toad. If I were a Democrat I would try to change the subject
I don't consider myself a Republican, but I usually vote that way
simply because I've yet to find a Democratic candidate that appeals to
me. I came close to voting for Gore on the grounds that he was
supposedly Pro-science, but his obvious dependence on Carville during
the campaign really turned me off.
If I had proof that the RNC chairman was a racist, I'd want him out
of the office just as I have wanted anyone else fitting that criteria
out of the office. I certainly don't condone the CCC, and in fact I
loath it on two grounds. First, that they are a bunch of hate filled
self absorbed racists. And second, that the fact that a bunch of hate
filled racists use a few points of belief I do agree with to further
there own dispicable goals makes it harder to get people to listen to my
own beliefs without being prejudged as a hate filled racist.
What I note is that whenever there is a scandal or the hint of a
scandal in either party, pundits on either side immediately start
belittling the hatred, pandering, and racism in some members of thier
own party and making arguements about moral equivalency in the other.
Of course, hatred is not moral no matter who does it, and the best
policy would be to denounce it no matter who is doing it. hold people
to diffferent standards based on the color of thier skin, ethnic
background, or religious affliation is ridiculous. I don't care what
color you are.
I leave you with this excellent peice by Walter Williams:
"Rush Limbaugh's comment on ESPN regarding Philadelphia Eagles'
quarterback Donovan McNabb was: "I don't think he's been that good from
the get go. I think what we've had here is a little of social concern
from the NFL. The media has been desirous that a black quarterback do
Kweisi Mfume, NAACP's president, criticized Limbaugh's remarks as
bigoted, ignorant and racist. Democrat presidential hopefuls chimed in
with their criticism, and Eagles' owner Jeffrey Lurie called Limbaugh's
Being 67 years old, I've personally experienced racist language as
well as racist acts, not only in my hometown of Philadelphia but during
my 1959 to 1961 stint in the Army while in South Carolina, Georgia,
Korea and California. I'd like someone to tell me precisely what it is
that Limbaugh said that can rightfully be characterized as racist. For
the life of me, I can't find it. Limbaugh's statement is opinion that
can be characterized as correct or incorrect -- but racist, no.
The true tragedy of the flap over Limbaugh's remarks is that it's
reflective of an ongoing process in our increasingly politically correct
world where people are losing the freedom to say what they think lest
they be subject to intimidation, extortion and other costs by our
well-established grievance industry.
On an earlier ESPN show, Limbaugh criticized the NFL's new hiring
rule that turns black prospective coaches into diversity pawns. Under
the NFL's "diversity" program, the Detroit Lions were fined $200,000 for
failing to interview minority candidates before hiring their new coach,
Steve Mariucci. Limbaugh pointed out that the reason no black coaches
showed up for the interview was because they knew president Matt Millen
was interested in Mariucci.
The message to other teams, not wanting to be fined, is to interview
black coaches even though they might have no intent whatsoever in hiring
them. That's a despicable practice that I can relate to. While
interviewing for jobs early in my career as an assistant professor,
there were at least two different university interviews where I suspect
there was no intention to hire me. They only wanted to interview a black
candidate so as to keep the affirmative action lady off their backs. I
was simply a pawn, a statistic. Now my question to you: Does Limbaugh's
criticism of the NFL's diversity policy also make him a racist?
Liberals are selective in terms of what they deem racist. Take Dusty
Baker, the black Chicago Cubs manager, who said: "Personally, I like to
play in the heat. ... It's easier for me. It's easier for most Latin
guys and easier for most minority people." Baker added, "Your skin color
is more conducive to the heat than it is to the light-skinned people,
right? You don't see brothers running around burnt and stuff, running
around with white stuff on their ears and nose and stuff."
Then there was New York City Councilman Charles Barron who said,
addressing a 2002 Washington, D.C., reparations gathering, "I want to go
up to the closest white person and say, 'You can't understand this,
it's a black thing,' and then slap him, just for my mental health."
Then there's the liberal California Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante, who
while giving a Black History Month speech used the word "nigger." He
claimed it was a slip of the tongue and got off the hook. Sen. Robert
"former Klansman" Byrd used the term nigger in a Fox News interview. His
Senate colleague Democrat Ernest Hollings told reporters in December
1993 that he attended international summits alongside "these potentates
from down in Africa." He added, "Rather than eating each other, they'd
just come up and get a good square meal in Geneva."
Here's my challenge: Ask liberals in the media and elsewhere, who are
demanding Limbaugh's head, why they didn't demand the heads of the
authors of these clearly racist remarks. "
Both sides should be ashamed of those that cross the line, rather than making excuses over it.
Only, see, he's not the head of the RNC any more. He's running for
governor of Mississippi. Said so in the post. Maybe some of the other
stuff you're looking for is there too?
Dja know the last Blackhawk Barbecue was in honor of Nathan Bedford Forrest?
Are we sure he was a racist? I need to know how far back to go here.
How is it that Al Sharpton is an equivalent to Trent Lott? Trent
Lott and Haley Barbour and their cohorts are still more dangerous than
Al Sharpton, simply because these men are closer to polically and
econonomically powerful groups who are happened to be dominated by
True, Al Sharpton is at times a race baiter, but I think he has
changed greatly, just as Robert Byrd did when he abandon the KKK, thus
his racist past, something that Trent Lott never did. Republicans always
overlook this fact.
Thank you all for changing the subject. We don't want to talk about
Barbour's racist connections. Let's just keep talking about Al
no, no, no, as long as Al Sharpton exists we cannot criticize racist Republicans because then we're hypocrites... doh
Grumpy, as 'Celts' include all people in Ireland (ie. including 16th
century Scottish immigrants), than you can safely assume that they
brought perpetual, irredeemable sectarian warfare to this 'European
Christian Heritage'. Maybe this is what the CCC has in mind?
- A Celt
Thank you all for changing the subject. We don't want to talk
about Barbour's racist connections. Let's just keep talking about Al
Yes, the grown ups are in charge now. It's all about accepting responsibility.
In case you can't grasp simple things, novakant, you can talk about
anything you wish. There is no reason, however, for anyone to take what
you have to say seriously, because the behavior you tolerate among those
on your side indicates that you don't really mean what you say. You
simply mean to win. Fine; everybody likes to win, but the desire to win,
and the willlingness to take any action to facilitate that desire,
doesn't qualify you as someone worth paying attention to.
It would be as if Limbaugh came back on the air and said that Ted
Kennedy's alcoholism disqualified him from participating in debates
pertaining to public policy.
Yet more blaming others. Yep, the grown ups are in charge all right.
Somehow the Jews of New York have forgiven the Democrats for their
dealings with Sharpton. It may have something to do with the fact that
Sharpton does not hold public office or party office either. Given the
choice between Barbour's party (which it is) and "Sharpton's party"
(which it isn't), Jews vote Democratic. Will Allen should really be
working a lot harder on the outreach in New York City. I'm sure that
his cutting insights and warm personality would change a lot of minds,
if only he weren't wasting them on the likes of us.
Farrakhan, as I said, is a Republican most of the time. Byrd has
changed and apologized, as I said. Some of that other stuff being
cranked out comes from pretty deep in the wasterbasket.
well Will, what the %§&!* do you know about "my side"? suffice it
to say I'm not a Dem, I just hate racism, anti-semitism and homophobia
as documented on the CCC website and I feel free to criticize people who
associate themselves with such ideas without having to attach a
disclaimer to all my posts, reassuring everybody that I would also
object if some Dem did a similar thing
I could go on elaborating but this is getting tiresome
and thanks for doubting my intelligence, calling me a hypocrite and comparing me to Rush Limbaugh, all in one posting, love it
By Zizka's towering moral calculation, the corpses produced by
Sharpton are acceptable as long as Jews in NY continue to vote for
Democrats. Somebody contact the Nobel Committee!! As was said
previously, what's a few murders when there are votes to be gained!
Spinning, I am not "blaming" anybody, I am simply disputing the
notion that politiking with racists for electoral gain is beyond the
pale for prominent Republicans, while it remains acceptable for
prominent Democrats to politik with, for electoral gain, those who have
incited murders. You disagree, because you like Democrats, and dislike
Republicans. Fine, but don't dishonestly assert that someone is
"blaming" others when they find such moral reasoning grotesque.
Well, novakant, this site is produced by a Democrat, so when you
write, "no,no, no, as long as Sharpton exists, we cannot criticize
racist Republicans because then we're hypocrites..", it is not a leap to
think you are on the same side as Mr. Drum. You'll notice that I never
disputed anyone's right to criticize Barbour, but merely inquired
whether Kevin was willing to be as hard on Democrats' associations. To
his credit, Kevin indicated that he thought associating with Sharpton
was wrong, although I think he soft-pedals Sharpton's actions somewhat.
If you're not on the Democrats' side, why not simply say associating
with Sharpton is grotesque as well, instead of implying that anyone is
saying that you can't hammer Republicans?
Barbour is running against Ronnie Musgrove, a Democrat. Musgrove has
also attended CCC events. But this doesn't tell us anything about the
Democratic party, does it? NOOO, of course not. Nor does Sharpton, nor
Bustamante (n-word use , plus membership in a racist organization), nor
does Robert Byrd, nor any other Democrat who may make a racist
Lott was driven out of a leadership position for what he said. When
was the last time a Democrat was forced to step down for this kind of
thing? Uhm, gee, can't think of any.
But don't mind me, I'm just a registered Republican. Don't let the facts get in the way, just label this "hate speech".
Shorter Republicans: "We may be worse, but they're bad!"
Pete, who used the phrase 'hate speech' here?
Oh, right: just you.
I am simply disputing the notion that politiking with racists for
electoral gain is beyond the pale for prominent Republicans, while it
remains acceptable for prominent Democrats to politik with, for
electoral gain, those who have incited murders.
The moment I see Republican party leadership criticize Barbour for this, I will take this argument seriously.
There are plenty of Democrats and Republicans who have criticized
those within their own campaigns for actions similar to this. These are
good people to do so. This should be the common approach, especially
among self-proclaimed grownups.
The incorrect approach -- the one you're taking -- is to suggest that
Republican party leadership is immune from criticism because there are
others in the Democratic party who are sinful. This attitude leads to
If you wish to criticise someone other than Barbour because someone
is criticizing Barbour here, that is indeed "blaming" others to avoid
addressing what Barbour is doing.
You seem to be giving Barbour a pass because someone else is a bad person.
"By Zizka's towering moral calculation, the corpses produced by
Sharpton are acceptable as long as Jews in NY continue to vote for
Funny I don't recall him mentioning anything of the sort. As I
remember it the setting up of a strawman argument in any debate kinda
loses you credibility. It was a fair attempt (almost) at a feint though .
In my first post I acknowledged the facts about Sharpton. I have
given several reasons why I think Sharpton is less a factor in the
Democratic Party than large numbers of generic white racists are in the
Republican Party. One is that white racism is integral to the Republican
national campaign, whereas, rather than anti-Semitism being central to
the Democratic national campaign, THE JEWISH VOTE is central to the
The aggrieved group in the Sharpton case, New York Jews, has
concluded differently than you have. So now I look at you, and LO! --
you're someone who has a longstanding, intense animosity to the
Democratic Party and all its works. What a shocker! Who would've thunk
I've already covered Byrd's KKK membership. Twice. It was before most people were born, incidentally.
"Somehow the Jews of NY have forgiven the Democrats for their dealings with Sharpton".
This assertion has exactly nothing to do with whether it is tolerable
for Democrats to appear with, for electoral gain, someone has incited
murders. The victims are dead, and cannot speak for themselves. To
refuse to address whether it is acceptable for prominent Democrats to
seek electoral advantage by appearing with someone who has incited
murders, and instead to raise the issue of an religous group's voting
pattern, a grotesque rationalization is pursued.
Spinning, I challenge you to reprint one word on my part that defends
Barbour. I have not. I simply responded to Kevin's original post by
asking what standrads he was willing to hold his political party to. To
his credit, Kevin indicated that he would prefer that Democrats
disassociate themselves from Sharpton, although I think he soft-pedals
Sharpton's actions. Thus, I have minor disagreement with Kevin at this
point. I have major diasagreement, however, with the rationalizers in
this thread who find it so difficult to say that prominent politicians
should not seek electoral advantage by appearing publicly with those who
incite murder. Gee, what a terribly high standard to adhere to!
Yes, Zizka, Al Gore, Hillary Clinton, and Chuck Schumer make sure to
back-slap with a person who incites murders just for the hell of it, and
not because there is electoral advantage to be gained by appearing to
be on friendly terms with someone who incites murders. As long as the
Jews vote for Democrats, it really is of minor consequence, after all.
I'm sure that would have been a comfort to the people butchered, if they
had been so informed prior to their deaths. All for the greater good,
and all that. Hey, there are elections to be won, after all!
Sheeesh. I don't know who is "guilty" here. The Dems establish the
entire Slavery game, then after the evil Abe destroyed that --- they
developed the Jim Crow system in the south.
Now I can walk onto any college campus in the country and see segregated dorms, segregated graduation ceremonies, et. al.....
And my Dem friends tell me African Americans can't have vouchers,
because, "they aren't intelligent enough to decide where their children
shall attend school."
Why haven't any black people risen to any level of significance in the Democratic party?
The Dems are just bearing the White Man's Burden, in my estimation...
And the world still turns.
You will see criticism of Barbour over this from prominent
Republicans. What happened to Trent Lott? Is he still Majority Leader?
No. Democrats did not drive him out. Republicans did.
But you will never see Democrats criticizing Sharpton or any other left wing racist, because it never happens. Ever.
At some point it just becomes intolerable to listen to a bunch of
left-wing hyprcrites winging stones from their big old glass house.
Sorry, bad metaphor. Should be "intolerable to WATCH left-wing
hypocrites, etc." I mean, how do you hear someone throwing stones?
I know this post was a long while back, but to the "militant
polytheist," I say that one of the good things you can say, even if
you're a nonbeliever, about the impact of Christenization is that it
eliminated all of that human sacrafice associated with Celtic and
Germanic paganism. No more slitting people's throats to use their
death-spasms as a way of predicting the future, and no more
strangulation while stabbing to worship Wodin :-).
What is with this constant bickering?
'Democrats made slavery! Dixiecrats were Democrats!' waahwaahwaah.
Nevermind the guys who made the Dixiecrats are... Wait, that was who
Lott was praising. Isn't he a Republican?
'Al Sharpton did hate speach!' ... Well, what position does Al
Sharpton hold aside from occasionally wrong pundit? What, he's somehow
worse than Bill O'Reilly or Rush Limbaugh?
...And aren't we talking about people who actually hold offices and positions, not pundits?
Lott is still one of the most powerful guys in the Senate. Try again, Pete. What a load of lying crap.
How can Democrats take away Sharpton's power? HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY.
They can't demote him from Majority Leader to committee chairman, the
way they did Lott.
Will, as always, you've convinced yourself. And the evidence. as
always, justifies a conclusion you came to God knows how long ago. And
you've reponded very selectively to the various things I've said.
How is Sharpton worse than O'Reilly or Limbaugh? How about his
involvement in both incitement to murder and a faked racial beating. And
that is my point. There seems to be no line a Democrat can cross to get
criticism from the left. Unless,
You are right. Sharpton cannot be demoted from a Senate position he
does not have. But he isn't even criticized. He is treated as an
important figure by Democrats, despite his despicable history.
Meanwhile, Barbour's action is being used to brand the Republican
party racist as his Democratic opponent does the SAME THING and neither
he nor his party are criticized.
Zizka, I know the current definition of lying employed by the left is
disagreement with the left, but I can tell you that everything I wrote
above was factually accurate as far as I know.
You are free to disagree with me over left wing hypocrisy. You can
call me a moron or ignorant, if you wish. The lying charge, however, is
simply inaccurate. I never said Lott was driven from the Senate.
Further, I claimed that Sharpton and other left wing racists receive no
condemnation from the left, not that he should lose his political power.
Switching metaphors again, get your own house in order, then you can
attack the right over racism. As far as I can see, the race charge is
purely partisan demagoguery.
(all the substantial arguments have been made and ignored, so why bother?)
Let's see. Al Sharpton represents the Democrats in much the same way
as David Duke represents the Republicans. He's a racebaiter who runs for
They even dislike most of the same people.
What else you got?
And David Duke was invited to appear at Presidential debates with all the major candidates when, exactly?
Let's face it, Al Sharpton's appearances at the debtaes merely confirms that racism is part-and-parcel of the Democrat party.
Sharpton's appearance at the debtaes has to do with the fact that Shartpton is running for president.
Duke was not running for president.
He did, however, get his party's nomination and support when he ran for congress.
Really, you're going to have to find another talking point.
Oh, wait, I'm wrong. We are in bed with antisemites.
Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad
on Thursday told a summit of Islamic leaders that "Jews rule the world
by proxy" and the world's 1.3 billion Muslims should unite, using
nonviolent means for a "final victory."
His speech at the Organization of the Islamic Conference summit,
which he was hosting, drew criticism from Jewish leaders, who warned it
could spark more violence against Jews.
Mahathir, who is known for his outspoken, anti-Western rhetoric,
criticized what he described as Jewish domination of the world and
Muslim nations' inability to adequately respond to it as he opened the
meeting of Islamic leaders from 57 nations.
"The Europeans killed 6 million Jews out of 12 million, but today
the Jews rule the world by proxy," Mahathir said. "They get others to
fight and die for them."
Here, a prominent democrat evinces support for Mr. Mahathir's world view.
Woops. Sorry, guys. Our bad.
There goes Julia, AGAIN failing to address the racism that is a basis of the Democrat party.
No, Julia, Sharpton did not get up on stage with Dean and Kerry and
Gephart merely because he is "running for President". There are LOTS of
Democrats who are running for President who didn't get up on stage at
the debates. Rather, the Democrats WANT Sharpton up on that stage so
that they can appeal to the bigots who support Sharpton that make up a
segment of the Democrat party.
The hypocrisy of the Democrats here - Kevin Drum especially - is
appalling. Race baiting blacks like Sharpton are fine and dandy - yes,
let's give a privileged position as one of only 10 Democrats at major
Presidential debates. But Barbour attends a BBQ put together by some
questionable Southern group and he's the real racist - even though the
DEMOCRAT he's running against, Gov. Musgrove, has attended functions of
THE VERY SAME RACIST GROUP.
So admit it, Julia, Democrats are the REAL racist party here - the
party of Gov. Ronnie "I attended CCC events too" Musgrove, Lt. Gov. Cruz
"N****r", "MeCHA" Bustamonte, Rev. Jesse "Hymietown" Jackson, Sen.
Robert "KKK" "white n****r" Byrd, Rep. Jim "Anti-Semite" Moran.
you're cute when you're foaming.
What the Lott incident shows is that Republicans should be carefull letting Democrats into their party.
Back when Lott and Thurmond supported segregation, they were Dems.
This whole brouhaha is about a former Dem praising another former Dem for what is still a Dem policy.
Dems supported race discrimination, then for approximately three years they didn't, now they do again.
Up until Lott's remarks, Reps were clamoring for his removal,
precisely because of his annoying habit of saying dumb things,
especially the nice things about Teddy Kennedy.
Claiming that our culture is somehow descended from the Arabs because we use 0 is frankly inane.
Go over to an Arab and ask him to describe the hallmarks of his
culture. He'll list a lot of things, but I doubt he'll include 0.
That's a stupid as saying that Arabs are adopting Western culture
when they use computers. 0 and computers and similar things are tools,
And these silly attempts to show that our culture is somehow equally
descended from the Arabs and Hindus as it is from Greeks, Romans, Celts,
and Anglo Saxons is excellent evidence for the proposition that
political correctness kills brain cells.
Finally, I note that no one objecting to this quote has yet suggested an alternative to "the civilization that has evolved through the Greeks, Romans, Celts, and Anglo-Saxons". And, of course, you can't with looking even stupider than you already do.
Sorry, but i need a little actual background to the story before i
conclude that Barbour was there with knowledge of who he was pandering
You guys simply don't take into any kind of account the fact that
organizations like this lie and lie all the time. it would not be
beneath them to trick a bigwig into coming to their innocent sounding
rally. The fact, Calpundit, that it took you several paragraphs to even
explain who they are proves it is not obvious to everyone. Maybe you
walk around town with a list of hate groups in your back pocket, but not
everyone is like that.
So you need a little more about the circumstances behind the pic
before I am going to conclude that Barbour knew what he was getting
Mike, you should really take some classes in the history of ideas.
You will see that the Egyptians and Sumerians invented such trivial
things as alphabetic writing around 2000 BC, while "we" were still
running around in bear skins. You will see that Greek thought didn't
somehow fall from the sky and that one of its more interesting
achievements was the development of truly abstract reasoning which
judges ideas according to their logical validity and not their origin.
The Sophists would have laughed out loud at the notion of "Christian
values". You will see that hadn't there been that "Arab" guy Averroes
(Ibn Rushd) who rediscovered Aristotle, much of European Renaissance
thought would probably have taken a distinctly different course. You
will also see that a good part of modern European philosophy was devoted
to debunking exclusive and bigoted definitions of "culture", "heritage"
and "religion" and steering humanity towards rational and universal
It must be easy to do, mistake the CCC for some nicer bunch of folk.
Maybe they disguise themselves with masks or hoods or somewhat? John
Ashcroft met with them a few years ago and he didn't know who the heck!
And he's from Missouri! Here's a link about it:
"I'd like someone to tell me precisely what it is that Limbaugh said
that can rightfully be characterized as racist. For the life of me, I
can't find it. Limbaugh's statement is opinion that can be characterized
as correct or incorrect -- but racist, no."
Celebrim, if you're still here. It's not "racist" perse - though one
could argue that Rush is calling the media racist for favoring a black
-- it's wedge politics - Rush is pitting white against black by saying
that blacks are being favored.
Rush could simply have said he's over rated - why bring in race?
People are sick of this crap - and it's just easier to call it
racism. I have no idea if Rush is a racist or not - but what he's doing
is dispicable -- attempting to empower and embolden whatever racist
strains exist in each of us and in society at large.
just say no.
"(despite the fact that ANSWER et. al. were behind the antiwar rallies)."
The antiwar movement split (in the U.S.) early on. ANSWER may have
been influential in Europe and the rest of the world (I can't say); but
it wasn't here.
It was driven largely by UnitedForPeace, MoveOn, CommonCause,
VeteransAgainstWar, and WAMM. The ANSWER people showed up at the
protests to be sure -- but they were less than 2% (most of the time)
ClearChannel orchestrated the Dixie Chicks protests and some of the
pro war rallies. Which is a unique role for our 4th estate (in other
countries it would called a harbinger of fascism - but we defeated
fascism and we know it's dead)
The main objective of the "anti war" movement in the U.S. was to
bring an end to "Bush Doctrine" - but it seems that Bush has saved the
movement the trouble - it's unlikely that any U.S. president will be
able to make a case to the world (or even to the us at home) to fight a
preventative war based on intelligence data.
Yeah, yeah the Republicans pander to racists, like the NAACP, Jessie
Jackson and Al Sharpton? Ho hum when the Dems get rid of the Grand
Dragon I'll be able to take this seriously. Its sort of the same vein
as look Arnold groped Hitler.
Novakant, I'm still waiting to hear the alternative to "the
civilization that has evolved through the Greeks, Romans, Celts, and
You can't suggest one, can you... and it's burning you up inside, right?
PANDERING TO RACISTS: Democratic Gov. Ronnie Musgrove and other Democratic political candidates. See article:
Barbour, a former Republican National Committee chairman, is
challenging Democratic Gov. Ronnie Musgrove in the Nov. 4 general
A photo on the CCC national Web site shows Barbour and several other
casually dressed people — including state Sen. Robert "Bunky" Huggins,
R-Greenwood — at the Black Hawk political rally this past summer in
rural Carroll County, about an hour's drive north of Jackson. . .
Lord said the CCC held a separate barbecue the same day as the Black
Hawk rally, which traditionally attracts a broad spectrum of candidates,
Democratic and Republican. Lord said some black candidates were among
those who spoke at the rally.
Musgrove said Thursday he had attended the Black Hawk rally in the past but didn't this year because of a scheduling conflict."
Ah, well, David beat me to it. Musgrove went to this rally as well.
Isn't is a bit, oh , explicitly hypocritical of you all though?
Democrat goes to CCC rally--no fuss
Republican goes to CCC rally--fuss.
I won't hold my breathe waiting. This will just turn into one of
those things like ignoring Kleagle Byrd's membership in the KKK--a
situation that is usually backied up with Duke's UNSUCCESSFUL run for
congress, a run, I might add that was NOT endorsed by the national RNC.
David Duke did not have the official party endorsement when he ran
for Senate in 1990, Ben Bogart did. David Duke did not have the official
party endorsement when he ran for Governor in 1991, Clyde Holloway did.
I do not recall him running for the US House (Louisiana House, yes, and
he won, crazy New Orleans suburbs).
I LIVED THERE THEN.
And in 1991 I held my nose and voted for Edwin Edwards, the last
Democratic candidate that I voted for. It was more of a vote against
Duke. And yes, I'm a Republican.
The Great "Celt" debate is fundamentally a debate about Celtic
identity and who possesses it. HELLO!!! The Irish are not Celts. DNA
tests carried out on Irish bodies found in bogs has determined that the
people now in Ireland are of the same stock as the 6000 year old
bodies.This predates the Celts by thousands of years. The Irish adopted
Celtic culture and symbols in much the same way as much of Europe later
adopted Roman ways of life.The dominant culture of the time is always
copied. Hey the world drinks coca cola and wears baseball caps!
I'm sorry, but is the standard reply to Byrd still just, "Well, he said he was sorry"?
So did Lott. That doesn't mean anything. Democrats not only allow
Sharpton to run, something they could stop, they kiss his ass on the
campaign trail. Democrats have the support of, and support in
reciprocation, militant communist psychos as well (does anyone remember
Clinton letting the Weathermen off?). Democrats are, in no way, better.
The media is basically just yelling, constantly, that Republicans must
be the racist ones, and people just ignore how deeply infest the
Democratic party is with ANSWER types. Look, I'm no Repug. I won't
vote for Bush, and I hate this shmuck. But, are you really going to
claim that Democrats are any better?
By the way, if you think I'm kidding about media spin, try this. How
much media attention did Duke's run for Senate get when he was a
non-official Repug? How much attention did he get when he was an
official Democratic primary candidate? Spin that one, morons.
Republicans are better at pandering to white racists, Democrats are
better at pandering to anti-semites, black racists, and psycho
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