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October 05, 2003 15 AND COUNTING....In case you're keeping count, we're now up to 15 women who say Arnold "fondled, spanked or touched them" between 1979 and 2000. I guess before long it's going to be easier just to list the women who aren't on Arnold's list. Posted by Kevin Drum at October 5, 2003 09:37 AM | TrackBackComments
Those women got what they wanted. that's why boobs and butts go to Hollywood. I write all about it here. http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/pruden.html Apologies, this is the correct URL for my enlightening column. Posted by: Wes Pruden at October 5, 2003 09:47 AM | PERMALINKIt was all youthful indiscretions when I was 25, 26, 30 32, 33, 35, 38, 40, 41, 43, 44, 46, 47, 48, and 50. And 51 and 52. Posted by: The Arnis at October 5, 2003 09:50 AM | PERMALINKHave you ever worked as a table server, Wes? Was being treated like this part of why you did it? One Sunday, she said, she was pouring coffee at the table when Schwarzenegger beckoned her. "I bent down to listen to him," she recalled. "He said, a little louder than a whisper, 'I want you to do a favor for me.' I thought, OK, maybe he wanted more bread. And he said, 'I want you to go in the bathroom, stick your finger in your (vagina), and bring it out to me.' " She stood upright. "I was thoroughly disgusted" but said nothing to Schwarzenegger, she recalled. "There was drama in the silence of it," she said. "He looked up, and it looked like I was threatening (him) with the coffee pot." Everyone at the table then glanced over at the restaurant owner, Andre Driollet. He wagged his finger at the waitress, she said, apparently fearful that she was going to dump the coffee on Schwarzenegger. "I was so appalled, and when Andre looked at me (as if) to say you better not, I immediately went to him to tell him what happened," she recounted. What Schwarzenegger had said "was above and beyond what was acceptable. I think he should have had hot coffee poured in his lap." Posted by: Jesurgislac at October 5, 2003 09:54 AM | PERMALINKCan you imagine what would be in the papers and on TV today if Arnold were running as a Democrat, or if any Democratic candidate had these kind of allegations to deal with? Still, I watched MTP this morning and was surprised that only Novak really pushed the Arnie line that this is all about Gray Davis and his dirty campaigning. Novak even likened it to GWB's DUI. He failed to recall, however, that the DUI story was true. He repeated referred to the allegations against Arnie as "insinuations." You can all these allegations a lot of things, but insinuations they are not. Does any of this matter to California voters? Was there a reason why Gray Davis didn't run commercials defending his decisions? Was there a reason why Gray Davis didn't run commercials showing that Arnold is just a front for Pete Wilson, the very same governor who set up the energy crisis? Posted by: James E. Powell at October 5, 2003 09:55 AM | PERMALINKThose women got what they wanted. That's why boobs and butts go to Hollywood. Oh right, "Wesley". Every working woman in Hollywood...and that's what we're talking about here...every waitress, production assistant, lighting technician, makeup artist, gaffer, stunt double, and yes, actress, etc etc etc None of them have a right to expect men to keep their hands to themselves because they work in the film biz? Posted by: scylla at October 5, 2003 10:05 AM | PERMALINKFor what it's worth, I was sitting in the auditorium at the Carpenter Center (Long Beach), watching a live Bill Maher performance. It was a full house. And, the crowd definitely 'looked' republican. White, wealthy, to middle class. And, Maher brought the house down with his Schwartzenegger jokes. Plus, his statement, if you listen to Arnoldt, his whole reason for running is that it's ALL for him. Nothing for you. Why would anyone want to enhance Arnoldt's resume, he said? And, laughter erupted through the whole house. Sure, he said, Grey Davis isn't popular (for good reason). HOWEVER, he was duly elected. What's our job, folks? As citizens. Doesn't it make sense to defend our Constitution? Why should the conservatives, who are based inside the republican party, get a second chance? We duly elected Davis last year. How can he be 'recalled' on trumped up charges? What was he supposed to do? Run his last campaign with the slogan? "It's worse than you think?" Today's news is nothing more than headlines on acid. None of this stuff makes sense. And, after the show was over, I turned to my son and said, IF THERE ARE VOTES FOR SCHWARZENNEGER, YOU WOULDN'T FIND THEM HERE! And, Bush's failures to have a plan post-Iraq? The audience got it. No need to add CIA dirty tricks to this mix, either. What a formula! News on Acid. To an audience that gets soberer and soberer with time. Gone, I think, are the stoners. And, if Arnoldt has the votes to win you're gonna surprise me. Can the voting machines be that corrupted? So far, no polls match any reality that I know. Posted by: Carol in California at October 5, 2003 10:10 AM | PERMALINKWow. Thanks for the "Enlightenment", Wes. Women just get what they deserve, don't they?
Oct. 16, 2002, was like any other day on the campaign trail for Gray Davis. His schedule included a live interview with Lou Dobbs' "Moneyline," broadcast from UCLA's Anderson School of Management. Students were invited to question Gov. Davis during the 10-minute segment that centered on the governor's business ethics. According to the UCLA student newspaper, the students were generally disappointed by the governor's roundabout and evasive answers. But when the cameras stopped rolling, a different Gov. Davis emerged for his college hosts, as UCLA student Jonathan Young told me. Davis was surrounded by several inquisitive students and was talking with one of the professors, Ely Dahan. Professor Dahan asked Davis about an article in The Wall Street Journal submitted by Nobel Economics laureate Vernon Smith, in which Smith blamed California's leadership for the state's storied energy crisis. "The people at The Wall Street Journal are a bunch of f---ing a--holes," Davis angrily responded. "They don't see the world realistically." Longtime followers of the short-tempered governor might not have been shocked by Davis' caustic remark, but undergraduate and business school students surely were. "I don't think Gov. Davis likes The Wall Street Journal in particular," Professor Dahan understatedly commented. This latest blow-up is no surprise from the California governor, known throughout Sacramento for his fiery temper. The outwardly ice-cold Davis doesn't work well under pressure and has a history of such outbursts. As early as Jan. 16, 1995, the Los Angeles Times noted that the then-prospective gubernatorial candidate had a "short temper." New Times Los Angeles columnist Jill Stewart penned an expose about Davis in November 1997 in which she described him as an "office batterer." "Long protected by the news media, the baby-faced Davis has been allowed to move higher and higher in public office despite his history of physical violence, unhinged hysteria, and gross profanity," Stewart wrote. "Davis' hurling of phones and ashtrays at quaking government employees and his incidents of personally shoving and shaking horrified workers 'usually while screaming the f-word with more venom than Nixon,' as one former staffer reminds me, bespeak a man who cannot be trusted with power." (Jill Stewart, "Closet Wacko vs. Mega-fibber," New Times Los Angeles, Nov. 27, 1997) On April 18, 2001, the Sacramento Bee reported that Davis launched into an obscenity-laced tirade before California Senate Republicans, frustrated at his inability to convince them to buy Southern California Edison's transmission lines. Sen. Tom McClintock (R-Simi Valley) told reporters that Davis "completely lost control of himself." "The f-word was prominent and repeated," stated Sen. Robert Morrow (R-Oceanside). (Emily Bazar and Kevin Yamamura, "Grid Deal Session Spurs Davis Tirade," Sacramento Bee, April 18, 2001) Davis has become especially testy of late. Perhaps his recent frustration is tied to the fact that despite challenger Bill Simon's political blunders, Davis has not been able to pull away in the race. In March, Davis went into meltdown during an interview with the San Diego Union-Tribune. "I saved this friggin' paper," he ranted. "I kept the lights on in this state. Do you understand that? I kept the lights on! I should at least get a round of applause (but) I don't get squat! People just roundly criticize me. This was worse than being in Vietnam. This was an all-out war against me." (Newsmax.com, "Gray Davis in Newspaper Temper Tantrum," March 21, 2002) On Sept. 19, Sacramento Bee reporters asked Davis if they could see his appointment schedule. "Why don't you go to bed with me?" Davis snarled. "Why don't you move in with me? You're not going to get it. Forget it." (Dan Smith and Ed Fletcher, "Davis: 'No Apologies' for Fund-raising Style," Sacramento Bee, Sept. 20, 2002) Before the Oct. 7 debate between Davis and Simon, Davis threw a fit when it was suggested by Simon that Green Party candidate Peter Camejo be included. Davis threatened to cancel the debate unless Camejo was barred from even sitting in the audience. (John Wildermuth, Suzanne Herel, "Simon's Guest List Imperils Debate," San Francisco Chronicle, Oct. 7, 2002) Posted by: a at October 5, 2003 10:25 AM | PERMALINKA: I totally disagreed with MODo this morning, and I disagree with you. I wrote her to complain about her column and though I'll spare you my full letter I'd just like to say this. 1) Many feminists were disgusted with Bill Clinton's behavior but Bill Clinton is not the issue. I voted for Clinton because I thought he had something to offer politically and despite years of vicious right wing attempts to dig something up on him in the end the most serious charges were found right down the line to be manufactured. Arnold has nothing to offer politically: he is nothign more than a manufactured image of manliness offering himself to a gullible public. The stories about groping and sexually harrassing women may be all there is--indeed, I doubt it anything more scandal-sheet worthy will emerge but that is just because he got what he wanted each and every time he humiliated and groped and harrassed some poor-wage-slave who couldn't dump coffee in his lap or quit in protest. Clinton didn't have to be perfect for me to vote for him. And Arnie doesn't have to be an out and out rapist for me to feel that I don't want to vote for him. Both are logical and, indeed, feminist positions and real feminists don't have to be lectured to by manufactured pundits like MoDo or by you. Aimai Posted by: aimai at October 5, 2003 10:25 AM | PERMALINKSo...tell us Paul--since feminism is dead--is it ok with you for Ahhh-nuld to grope your wife, sister or daughter? Posted by: JadeGold at October 5, 2003 10:26 AM | PERMALINKSee because Gloria Steinem didn't yell at clinton men can rape women now. Its obvious! Posted by: Rob at October 5, 2003 10:32 AM | PERMALINKAs is any of this makes a difference to the voters. So soon we forget the tolerance for so-called pecadillos: That's not only an all-time high for Clinton, it also beats the highest approval rating President Ronald Reagan ever had." http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/12/20/impeachment.poll/ Californians might get better mileage out of Arnold's intercourse
with Ken Lay and Michael Millken, being reported by Palast in Kos and
elsewhere. Wes, Are you saying that Arnie groped well-known Californians Nancy Reagan and Condoleeza Rice, former Stanford professor? Or are you just saying that Nancy and Condi are really hankering for a squeeze? Posted by: Jon H at October 5, 2003 10:33 AM | PERMALINKAimai: I read the MoDo column differently. I read her as saying, "if you tried to say Bill's indiscretions were nothing" in 1998, then you really ought to be saying Swaraz's indiscretions are nothing now. If you voted to impeach then, then you ought to be appalled now. I think consistency about how you expect men to hold public office to behave is a good thing. Beyond that, I agree that Bill had (some) good policies, a hell of a lot more than Swarz will ever have. But I think both their dalliances says something about them which, I think, ought to be factored into how you judge them. Posted by: emptywheel at October 5, 2003 10:33 AM | PERMALINKA says "One grope and you're ok. Them's your rules." Making a pass at a woman is a little different than asking a waitress to go into the kitchen, stick a digit into her vagina, and bring it back to you in front of a table of several of your friends. If you don't think his behaviour was wildly misogynistic, I don't know what to tell you. I would tend to think you're either in denial, or hate women yourself. Posted by: Jeffrey Gordon at October 5, 2003 10:39 AM | PERMALINKI changed my mind. I'm supporting Arnold for governor. Looks emptywheel, I don't know, I don't think the impeachment is at all like this situation, just like I don't think that not voting for someone is the same as forcibly removing someone from office. They are different levels of punishment and might conceivably apply to different levels of crime. If I actually thought that what clinton was alleged to have done (lied about consensual sex with another person while under oath) was the same as having repeatedly assaulted numerous women I still might come to the conclusion that the punishment in one case (impeachment) was too severe while the "punishment" in other other, loss of votes, was simply reasonable. For example, when I'm voting, I'm choosing someone to represent me. I don't now think, and never did, that Clinton's sex life reflected badly on him (although it showed poor judgement as to time and partner) but I do think that arnold's behavior demonstrates a cruel, sadistic streak which will likely come out in other places and other ways in his policies. Despite the ostensible similiarities that the right wing is insisted we take as given, I actually see the two cases as utterly distinct: from the acts alleged, to the punishments we are supposed to deliver. aimai Posted by: aimai at October 5, 2003 10:57 AM | PERMALINKSorry but the looney trolls are about on this issue. Women are still "fair game" for these radical right looney trolls. Spit after spotting and pass on. Radical right trolls mean to intimidate and slime. That is radical right trolldom. Posted by: lise at October 5, 2003 11:15 AM | PERMALINKAndrew Sullivan's comments about the MoDo column (the comments from 'a' are directly from Mr. Sullivan's site, or else 'a' is really Andy) have to trouble all good liberal Dems. Unfortunately, the Democratic establishment DID rewrite the rules in 1998, and now they're stuck with them. By denigrating the complaints of the women who came forward, as well as the anonymous women who complained about Mr. Clinton, the Dems set the stage for allowing future politicans to get off the hook (for everything short of forcible rape) with a mealy-mouthed apology. Surprise! That's just what Arnold did. Aimai notes a different interpretation of MoDo's comments. That's plausible, and as a liberal-conserative myself I'm none too pleased with these allegations. I don't think Arnold's apology is sufficient -- if the allegations are credible and true. And that of course is another point, isn't it? A group of anonymous women tell their stories the week before an election. Who gathered these complaints up? Why, a couple of well-known feminist Democrats and the LA Times, one of the most Democratic-oriented papers in the state. How convenient. So both parties are going to have to make a stand, probably too late for this election. But both are going to have to agree that inappropriate sexual contact is a death-knell for a political career. And both are going to have to stick with it even when it's their boy on the line. Posted by: Steve White at October 5, 2003 11:18 AM | PERMALINKSteve Actually, there was a story RIGHT when Arnold announced or started hinting that he was about to. It had a half dozen reports, mainly from actresses, as I recall, focusing on what a drag he was to work with on the set. I'm sorry I don't have the link--but it was not the mainstream media. It meant a lot to me at the time, because it saved me wasting any time wondering if Arnold had some hidden qualities of statesmanship. The story wasn't picked up by any of the mainstream media until just recently--but I'm sure it was enough to make some people start digging and building a case a major outlet might pay attention to. So the argument that this just came up is false. Its been building since he announced. I think its time we stopped assuming that mainstream media attention defines when an issue is first raised. Posted by: scylla at October 5, 2003 11:36 AM | PERMALINKsteve, I don't think innapropriate sexual contact is a "death knell" for a political career. I said above and I stick by it that its a question of what sexual contact, when, with whom, and what else you know about/believe you know about the politician. The Democrats under clinton didn't do anything new or different from what other politicians/observers have ever done when facing a barrage of political attacks and they didn't "change any rules." As for how we are to understand the way charges rolled out at the Clinton White House, and at Clinton personally, I suggest you read "The Hunting of the President: the ten year campaign to destroy Bill and Hillary Clinton." This very well researched book by Joe Conason and Gene Lyons gives in detail the history of the assorted smear attempts and phony "stories" and exposes that dogged Clinton for most of his political life. Arnold has just stepped into politics and is surprised to discover that people will be watching what he does and demanding an accounting. It is not the Democrats who are changing the rules but the Republicans who, having used Clinton's personal life to attack him for ten years were and are still shocked that their own politicians repeated moral failings (Henry Hyde, Newt Gingerich, Bill Bennett, and now, of course, Rush) become "fair game." But in this case, and remember we are talking about this case, lets just look at the record for this guy. First: the stories in the big media took seven weeks to put together. That is an indication of a serious account, well researched, not a put up job. Remember, the recall itself is taking place within a speeded up time frame. Its not suprising that some deep background on all the candidates only emerges slowly in this context. Second: Reading the accounts of these women in the paper you actually get a sense of how unlikely it is that all these accusations are trumped up. These are women from all walks of life, from all times in their lives, many of them with only a passing aquaintance with Arnold, many of them not involved in the recall election at all. One and all they seem to be very conflicted about the incidents. They remember them as painful, frightening, humiliating but also as just what happens to powerless women around ruthless powerful men. That, to me, is one of the saddest things about the whole case. No one has come forward with a complex "he said/she said" situation in which Arnold could reasonably argue that it was consensual. Most of these incidents (at least in the newsday account) have corroborating witnesses and the most that Arnold's defenders say is "gee, yeah, the guy is like that, he shoved a cupcake in my nose once but I thought it was funny." AGain, I judge each case on its merits and I don't see any need to prejudge all future cases on the basis of what the republicans did to bill clinton. What is happening to ARnold isn't payback for sins other republicans or democrats have committed, its just what Conason calls "instant Karma." aimai Posted by: aimai at October 5, 2003 11:46 AM | PERMALINKShorter Wes Pruden: The bitch was askin' for it. --Kynn Posted by: Kynn at October 5, 2003 11:53 AM | PERMALINKMaybe it was all the touchy-feely with the women that caused Arnies heart attack a few years ago. And here, I thought it was the steroids. Posted by: raj at October 5, 2003 11:55 AM | PERMALINKRemember Anita Hill? Steve, hello Steve, remember Anita Hill? Posted by: Mary Ellen Moore at October 5, 2003 11:56 AM | PERMALINKhe got what he wanted each and every time he humiliated and groped and harrassed some poor-wage-slave who couldn't dump coffee in his lap or quit in protest. Exactly. He was too rich and too powerful. His staff shielded him from consequences. People around him, sitting at the table with him, working with him, never spoke up. The waitress's boss warned her not to do anything. Even most of the women themselves didn't overtly object (I'm not "blaming the victim," I'm stating facts). He never learned not to do this stuff because his money and power shielded him from the consequences any other man would have suffered for these things. I think California's Republican voters, in particular, could lay the hammer down and give him some consequences next Tuesday, but I think they're in the position of that snivelling, cowardly maitre d': "Okay, that was bad, he's an awful man, but there are more important things at stake here, namely, getting a Republican win in California. So I'll just put my conscience to sleep and let him go on humiliating the help and making me feel like a weakling and a chump, not a man of principle." Posted by: Julia Grey at October 5, 2003 12:07 PM | PERMALINKsorry for feeding the trolls! Still, its always fun to clarify what one is thinking, even if the interlocutor turns out to be a phantom. Posted by: aimai at October 5, 2003 12:29 PM | PERMALINKSomebody please tell me, why do you believe Arnold's accusers and not Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey, and Juanita Broadrick? Dear Media: Please stop pretending you can't tell the difference between consensual and nonconsensual sex acts. Please stop pretending thinking allegations might have some bearing on whether someone should be elected is the same thing as thinking similar allegations (or not similar) justify forceably removing someone from office. Please stop pretending all of the allegations about Arnold are about events from thirty years ago. And for the males in the media, please, please, for the sake of your wives and daughters if nothing else, please stop conveying the idea that their breasts are public property.
As John Isbell often says about Digby, "Once again, Atrios gets it exactly right." Are we on the same page yet, Reggie? Posted by: Tuxedo Slack at October 5, 2003 01:54 PM | PERMALINKConsider the probability that Arnold will soon face charges in court as a sexual deviant and serial offender. Consider the possibility that he will be convicted. Posted by: hqplink at October 5, 2003 02:29 PM | PERMALINKConsider the likelyhood that Arnold will never get near a court, because the GOP protects their own from the consequences of their actions. Posted by: pessimist at October 5, 2003 02:49 PM | PERMALINKI'm noticing how many posters are referencing "feminism." You don't even have to go there. Schwarzengroper's behavior is repulsive and disgusting without bringing in the politics of it. It's brutish thug stuff and disqualies him from holding office or being my neighbor. You can make it a feminist issue if you want, but it's much more than that. Posted by: Slothrop at October 5, 2003 03:09 PM | PERMALINKGood ol' Reg: Golly Reg, do you think the fact that Broadrick swore under oath that
it wasn't true, the fact that Willey lied so often the OIC had to
re-immunizer her, and the fact that Jones was entirely supported by
Clinton enemies while not having a modicum of a case has anything to do
with people not believing them? Everyone, Democrat and Republican
condemned Clinton's adultery. Republicans are falling over themselves to
excuse Schwarzenegger. There is more than a taint of hypocrisy in your
position. You can make it a feminist issue if you want, but it's much more than that. This is very true. It's not a feminist issue, but a humanist one. It's not about sex so much as it is about abuse of power and sheer, unmitigated cruelty. The man gets a big kick out of embarassing and humiliating people who are powerless to fight back. He apparently pulled a similar stunt on a man, a dresser who was kind of homely. He'd mock the guy in front of other people, and made him get down on his knees and sit like a dog. No one who holds his fellow human beings in such contempt has any business in public service. Period. Posted by: hamletta at October 5, 2003 03:41 PM | PERMALINKSomebody please tell me, why do you believe Arnold's accusers and not Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey, and Juanita Broadrick? ::sigh:: Okay, lets go through this ONE MORE TIME! Paula Jones told witnesses that she, "wanted to be Bill Clinton's girlfriend," went to his hotel room of her own free volition and admitted to willingly kissing him before he made the now infamous proposition. That sounds pretty damn consensual to me, unless you don't believe what she said now that she doesn't fit your narrow assumptions about how it all went down. As to Broderick, under oath she denied that any such attack occurred. Was she lying while under oath? Kathleen Wiley was open about her attraction for the president and had expressed so in multiple letters to Clinton as well as what [former] friends report she stated to them privately. Wiley had then gone on to perjure herself so repeatedly that Ken Starr had to re-immunize her. So, considering what these women had to say themselves, contradicting your assumptions in the process, do you still believe them? Posted by: Thumb at October 5, 2003 04:53 PM | PERMALINKI'm noticing how many posters are referencing "feminism." You don't even have to go there. Now "feminism" is the new "liberal." Such an evil political position to hold that all us nice, reasonable people will apologize for it and say that others "don't have to go there." Sheebus Bright. Posted by: Julia Grey at October 5, 2003 05:10 PM | PERMALINKHas there ever been any solid evidence that Bill Clinton harrassed or groped a woman against her will? Kathleen Wiley, Juanita Broderick, Paula Jones, .. all had completely unsupported allegations and suspect circumstances. ( partisen connections, financial duress, etc ) Bill Clinton obviously has a weak spot for assertive women ( Hillary, Monica. ) This is hardly the classic profile of an aggressive misogynist. I don't know that Clinton ever forced himself on any woman. The public record shows that Lewinsky chased him. That's not to say he's without fault, just not in any way comparable to the Gropinater. Posted by: Joey G at October 5, 2003 05:52 PM | PERMALINKOh, I see that "Thumb" covers the topic pretty well. Posted by: Joey G at October 5, 2003 05:54 PM | PERMALINKModo's comment "Feminism died in 1998 when Hillary allowed henchlings and Democrats to demonize Monica as an unbalanced stalker," is an example of the hypocrisy and projection that characterizes media whores. I remember being revolted that Dowd ridiculed Monica Lewinsky for her weight on the editorial page of the NYT. I thought that was a vulgar moment in the history of that newspaper -- as though the editorial page was hijacked by a cruel teenage girl. I remember Dowd getting humiliated when she ran into Lewinsky in a restaurant and Lewinsky asked her why she was so cruel. Dowd didn't have an answer. I can just see her cringing in embarassment. "Journalists" like Dowd don't have values themselves. They just peddle snarky judgments about values other people are supposed to have. Posted by: copithorne at October 5, 2003 05:57 PM | PERMALINKClinton likely got a lot of consensual sex, more than even the Republicans could dig up on him, because he had charm, and women were attracted. Schwartzenegger, on the other hand, is an arrogant sneering jerk who gets his kicks pushing people around and humilating them. Nope, no difference between the two. No difference at all. Posted by: Canadian Reader at October 5, 2003 06:13 PM | PERMALINKIt's what They want, Julia. If they can make it about "angry feminists" then it's not about Maria's husband. Posted by: Slothrop at October 5, 2003 06:18 PM | PERMALINK. . . then it's not about Maria's husband. Speaking of whom: Does anyone else get the impression that much of this is news to Maria? If AS has gone to any effort to keep this stuff from his wife and she operates on the principle that marriage obligates you to believe your husband (as many wives do--I always did myself), she's now having her nose rubbed in Arnold's messes and it's got to be intensely humiliating--not just for her but for her daughters as well. (Especially since so many people seem to think AS's actions are perfectly okay.) Her smile seems increasingly frozen. A lot of the reason people are voting for this neanderthal is the assumption that as governor, he might be fun to watch. But watching what happens to his marriage--to a woman who grew up learning how a politician's family is supposed to act in public--might be quite a sideshow. I hope she didn't sign a pre-nup. California's still a community property state, no? Posted by: Molly at October 5, 2003 07:22 PM | PERMALINKMaria is skeletal and drawn. I 'd feel sorry if I didn't think there was a Carmella Soprano kind of denial going on inside that death's head of hers. Posted by: Julia Grey at October 5, 2003 07:54 PM | PERMALINK>Does anyone else get the impression that much of I certainly get the impression. If Arnold wins, it's God don't you hate it when your liberalism makes you stand up for someone when you wish you didn't have to. On Arnold (cause Schwarzennegger takes way too long to type): 1) The groping allegations are disgusting, but I think it reflects an
immature aspect of Arnold's personality rather than full blown
misogyny. This is analysis is supported by his often times crude
allusions and metaphors in his speech. 2) The admiring Hitler slam against Arnold is an example of out and
out political correctness. Examine the full text of Arnold's comments
and you see that he 'admired' aspects of Hitler (specifically his
speaking skills and his ability to rise above his humble origins), but
he is also clear that he did not approve (duh!) of the ends to which
Hitler used his talents. While his comments may have been poorly
phrased--and given that they occured 20+ years ago, not surprisingly
so--the intent is not that of praise. All that being said however, I do think there is ample reason not to support Arnold for the second part of the recall. 1) He has not laid out an economic plan or plausible vision for dealing with California's deficit. 2) He has not shown a comprehension of the role of the governor within the structure of a republican form of government (i.e. the governor does not govern by fiat). 3) His politicking is characterized by pandering to voters, and an over simplification of the issues facing the state. In summary, liberals should always resist the urge to vilify their opponents. It makes our job harder, true, especially as the other team seems all too ready to resort to such tactics, but it will allow us to retain our most powerful instruments that advance our agenda: intellectual honesty and integrity. Posted by: Dazir at October 6, 2003 12:00 AM | PERMALINKUh, guys: "Wesley Pruden" is obviously a pseudonym for someone satirizing the REAL Wesley Pruden: the eccentric (and very often obnoxious) editorial-page editor of the Washington Times (whose father, by the way, was official chaplain to the White Citizens Councils in the 1950s. At least Wes comes from a family with spiritual roots.) Posted by: Bruce Moomaw at October 6, 2003 02:13 AM | PERMALINKIf you don't like the sex scandal --but think Bob Packwood if you are
concerned about the timing --what about the Arnolian lies (think Pete
Wilson) 2>Real life I Gov. Schwarzenegger would learn that Sacramento isn't a movie set October 6, 2003 Press Democrat Editorial
Editorials Candidates make promises as easily as they kiss babies. The hard part -- keeping those promises -- comes later, after the polls close, after it is too late for voters to reconsider. If he is elected and if he tries to keep his promises, gubernatorial candidate Arnold Schwarzenegger would find that achieving his so-called "100-day plan" would be difficult -- except when it was impossible, impractical or unpalatable. His problems would begin with the same obstacle that has confronted the incumbent Democrat, Gray Davis. The Legislature, it turns out, has its own ideas about what's good for California. In the abstract, for example, a spending freeze sounds like a simple, straightforward solution, but it translates into draconian cuts in spending on education and health care. Democratic legislators who rejected a freeze proposed by a governor of their own party aren't going to be more inclined to support it when it comes from a Republican governor. Nor will legislators be willing to adopt the workers' compensation reforms that they rejected in September. A governor who enjoys a mandate from the electorate and is willing to bargain may, in time, persuade reluctant legislators to go along with his agenda. But it's unlikely that Schwarzenegger -- or anybody else -- will receive more than 40 percent of the vote. That won't be confused with a mandate -- even if Schwarzenegger knew enough about politics and government to broker a compromise. Other elements of Schwarzenegger's plan have also been proposed -- and rejected. During the most recent budget negotiations, Davis asked public employees' unions to reduce their compensation packages, and he asked Indian tribes to share a greater portion of their revenues. Both groups refused to make significant concessions. What are the chances that Schwarzenegger can do better? The candidate's promise to cancel the car tax is also dubious. 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