September 26, 2003
HUH? WHAT WAR?....From The Savage Wars of Peace, which I'm reading right now. Lieutenant Jack Myers, in command of the USS Charleston, is on his way to the Philippines in 1898:
the way the cruiser stopped at Guam, a Spanish possession. The ship
fired a dozen shots at the ancient Spanish fort guarding the capital.
There was no return fire. Instead a Spanish officer came out to the
cruiser to apologize for not having any powder; otherwise, he declared
politely, the fort would respond to the Charleston's "salute."
When the poor fellow heard that Spain and America were at war, he
promptly surrendered. Myers led a landing party that disarmed the
Spanish garrison and secured Guam for the United States.
Ah, the good old days of empire building....
Posted by Kevin Drum at September 26, 2003 03:07 PM
Doesn't say much for the CHARLESTON's gunnery, does it?
Is it just me or is Max Boot our Niall Ferguson? Has anyone ever seen these two in the same place at once?
Good old days of slow-ass communication.
Now the guy would be like 'Ci, I knew we were at war. I read it on MadridPundit's blog. Sagasta lied. People died'.
Interesting parallel there in the Spanish-American War. The Maine blows
up in harbor. . the press and body politic are convinced Spain is
responsible and work themselves into a lather. Later investigation
proves it wasn't Spain, but it doesn't matter. "Remember the Maine"
becomes a battlecry anyway.
Carry it further, sidereal. Hearst = Murdoch.
(I'm struggling to remember if there are any remnants of that fort
left; I lived on Guam from 1969-1970, but I'll be damned if I can think
where it might be).
reminds me of the first conquest of California. In the 1830's, an
American vessel off the coast of that state heard a rumor that the US
and Mexico were at war, so it immediately sailed for Monterrey, bombared
the unsuspecting presidio, sent the marines ashore and "captured" the
city. When he found out there was no war, they had to return the city,
and the president had to issue an apology to Mexico. (a real one, not a
I was on Guam in 1969-1970 on the submarine Kamehameha. Small world
Kamehameha... The king who united the Hawaiian Islands?
Yes, indeed. But only after fighting much worse than Lt. Jack Myers saw in Guam in 1898!
Hawaii must be just about the only place in the U.S. where, when you mention "the king" everyone knows you're not talking about Elvis. And there's also this Duke guy who's not John Wayne...
It certainly would be grand if our past and present empire building
ways brought us in contact only with civilized folk. Alas, neither the
Filipinos in that era, nor the Iraqis in this, seem to know how to play
the game. Even in the good old days, only some days were good.
"Doesn't say much for the CHARLESTON's gunnery, does it?"
The Navy was charged with sinking half a ship off he Olympic
penninsula awhile back. They brought a surface ship out and started
firing away at it. An associate of mine has a tape. The gunnery was
atrocious. The mostly didn't hit the thing. It's a totally bewildering
video. Eventually they gave up and some other ship or submarine puts a
torpedo into it.
I've often wondered whether the torpedo was the plan all along, and
if there werne't some campaign doners firing those guns, like in the
japanese fishing boat collision.
David: "In the 1830's, an American vessel off the coast of that state
heard a rumor that the US and Mexico were at war, so it immediately
sailed for Monterrey..."
Must've been some voyage, since Monterrey is some 200 miles inland.
:) Are you thinking maybe of Veracruz, which was invaded by the US Army
Monterrey is my family's favorite weekend vacation town. I can assure
you that it is a tiny penisula on a bay known as Monterrey Bay. They
have possible the best aquarium in the country, which sits on the bay,
and has many exhibits that incorporate the bay. I can't verify David's
story, but Monterrey, California IS vulnerable to sea-based attack.
Decnavda, you may be confusing Monterey, California with Monterrey, Mexico. They's not the same thing.
It is a small world- my aunt works at the Monterey Bay Aquarium.
David referred to Califonia, so I think I am right about which city
HE was talking about. Maybe Grumpy was making fun of David's
misspelling, and I, being a horrible misspeller myself, missed the gag.
Um, CALIFORNIA. I swear I was not attempting irony.
For the record, *I* was thinking of Veracruz, and was not aware that
Monterey, California had been invaded. :) Basically, the US has given
Mexico more than a few thrashings through the years.
for the latest on the Philippines: http://www.bulatlat.com
redcane, I was living up on Turner Road and attending UoG when not
hanging out at the Naval Hospital bowling alley; my Dad was CO of the
Public Works Center.
The Kamehameha was recently decommissioned, I regret to say. There's a statue of the King on the main drag in downtown Honolulu.
Yes, America has given Mexico some thrashings, but now with the
secret plan to make Bustamante governor and then return California to
Mexico, Mexicans will finally, finally, have their payback! I know this
is true, because respectable journalist Mickey Kaus clued me in to this
What is the relevance of any of this? Almost every border in the
world was fixed by conquest. Let's stop blaming America as if it were
the only offender. Does anyone seriously think California would be
better off today if it had been part of Mexico rather than the USA for
the last century and a half?
Who is blaming America here, and for what? Kevin's post was about a
funny incident during the Spanish-American war. The side discussions
are about Hawaii and Monterey vs. Monterrey. The post immediately
preceding yours was a joke, for pete's sake.