September 18, 2003
DAMN SHAME....Andrew Sullivan is a peculiar person, isn't he?
Or is it that he just assumes his readers don't know how to click a
hyperlink? Here he is today on the BBC/Kelly/Gilligan/Hutton inquiry affair: Check out this devastating analysis of
the BBC's fabrications about the Blair government. It's all the more
damning for appearing in the ultra-left newspaper, the Independent.
Blair won't be undamaged by this whole affair. But the credibility of
the BBC is in tatters.
Now, it's true that Andrew
Gilligan isn't looking too good these days, although, as Sullivan notes,
neither are Blair and his advisors. But is the Independent's analysis "damning"?
In a word, no. They rightly take Gilligan to task for some specific exaggerations and errors, but then say this: The
45-minute claim "was included in the dossier against our wishes,
because it wasn't reliable. Most things in the dossier were double
source, but that was single source, and we believed that the source was
wrong"
This, the guts of the Gilligan claim, has been vindicated by the
inquiry evidence. The inquiry heard this week that a memo was written on
behalf of the DIS by Dr Brian Jones, head of its WMD section, objecting
to the claim as it appeared in the dossier. Dr Jones and his chemical
expert wrote further formal complaints.
"The guts of the Gilligan claim has been vindicated by the inquiry evidence."
This is damning?
Posted by Kevin Drum at September 18, 2003 11:52 AM
| TrackBack
For another thing, The Independent is not an ultra left newspaper.
The Guardian/Observer, sure, but the Independent simply is not.
Centrist/Left-ish, yeah, sure, but definitively not ultra left. I don't
get it; Sullivan is British, surely he knows this...
For another thing, The Independent is not an ultra left newspaper.
The Guardian/Observer, sure, but the Independent simply is not.
Centrist/Left-ish, yeah, sure, but definitively not ultra left. I don't
get it; Sullivan is British, surely he knows this...
Is Sullivan really worth paying attention to? Just curious to know
what makes his spin all that important. I don't read his stuff myself
so perhaps someone can enlighten me.
Since Andrew Sullivan is demonstrably queer, I think we can resolve the question of his peculiarness easily with a thesaurus.
I used to read his stuff, but after I while I just decided it was all
drivel. He is a shameless shill for Bushco, and I just don't get it;
the GOP hates gays. Every once in awhile, Sully affects a posture that
shows some mild disapproval of Bushco, but quickly reverts to a
sycophantic worship of this decisive, brilliant military strategerist
(that Flypaper stuff is brilliant), declaring that, sure, Bush is
fiscally irresponsible, socially intolerant, but by golly, those
feckless democrats are somehow six times worse on the fiscal situation,
and let's not even talk about National Security--they just don't get it
(noting, approvingly, that 70% of the public DOES get it when they see
Saddam behind 9.11).
Sullivan is a hack. Pay him no mind.
This is just like the kind of chain letter that quotes a law that it
says makes its type of chain letter legal; if you ever look up the
citation, you see that it says that form of chain letter is illegal.
There's a food born every minute. Why shouldn't Sullivan play up to stupid people? They are his audience, after all.
Yes, I'm with Sullivan's dumb. There's no way The Independent could
even be described as 'left' let alone 'ultra-left'. Maybe he's taken
his cue from that fact that for the most part, they were firmly in the
anti-war camp.
Not just Sullivan managed to miss that the core of Gilligan's claim was vindicated.
Daniel Drezner as well.
Is anyone really surprised why Sullivan and Reynolds do not have
comment sections? That's the only way they can insulate themselves from
being challenged.
As to why anyone pays attention to Sullivan, unfortunately the
mainstream media do. He's still writing for TIME, for instance. Why, I'm
not sure. Like with Krauthammer and Coulter I think the media feel that
they're doing their bit for diversity by using the ravings of people
who are not easily pigeonholed (handicapped fascist, gay fascist, "sexy"
fascist, etc.).
The Hutton Inquiry is becoming a kind of Rorschach test for the
British media and those with ties to it. Of all the papers, the Indy
seems to have the best analysis. As for its 'ultra-left' status: yeah,
right. For Robert Fisk, there's Bruce Anderson; for Yasmin Alibhi-Brown
there's Howard Jacobson. And Johann Hari was a passionate advocate of
the war, the silly little boy.
I'm sure Sully thinks the Sunday Times is 'centrist'.
Gilligan fucked up his first unscripted head-to-head on the Today
programme. He realised his fuckup, wrote a script, and clarified things
in every other report that day. His weekend article was probably
over-the-top. But the substance remains, and the fact that the
right-wing press are turning this into a BBC-bash, and a 'who said what
to whom'-fest diverts attention from the fact that Blair was seeking
justification for a decision he had made independent of the facts.
Like Rush, O'Reilly, Hannity, InstaP, etc, Sullivan is not dumb, but
he assumes his readers are. If Sully says it's ultra-left wing, that's
all they need. If he says the report is damning, his readers know how
to ditto that.
If you get all of your news from Fox and Sully, then there's not reason to doubt him.
"peculiar"? Are you outing him?
nick sweeney, although correctly characterizing blair as "seeking
justification for a decision he had made independent of the facts," is
also describing sully's problem perfectly.
Sully (like Kaus) wasn't always this awful, and in fact,
post-santorum, he's less awful than he has been, but basically, he reads
into things what he wants to read into them. (prof instanitwit, by the
way, has basically always been this awful.)
Kind of depends where your biases are. I read the Sullivan story and
immediately clicked on the Independent link. They check 6 aspects of
Gilligan's story and conclude that 5 of them are
wrong or have insufficient supporting evidence. They do support Gilligan
on the issue mentioned by Kevin. The Independent is generally
characterised as liberal and left-wing on social issues.
So? Something for everyone?
Why is the right so childist?
As for why he's popular, people follow pundits because they like the implications of what they say, not what they actually say.
Well, Melk, the Independent may have analyzed 6 aspects as you say,
but they don't broadly conclude against him on the other 5--note, they
say it might have been better for PG to have refered to Dr Kelly as a
'key person' in the drafting, rather than senior official in charge
of...fairly niggling.
but, most importantly, as kevin noted, the Indep. notes that "the
guts of the Gilligan claim, has been vindicated by the inquiry
evidence."
maybe he hyped the position/involvement of his source slightly and
was guilty of hyping it a bit generally, but the bulk of his basic claim
was vindicated.
either way, it`s definitely not "damning," either to PG or to Blair...
I don't know about that last. . .
How could this not be damaging to Blair? It seems that on the face of
it, he pitched the war to his people in the manner of a dishonest
used-car-salesman. Not exactly lying, but not exactly telling the truth
either, and deliberately slanting the evidence he had, with an eye
towards scaring people, to get the country to invade a sovereign nation
that was never a threat.
Sure, it could've been worse, but not much worse.
There's a food born every minute.
Mmmmm... babies...
Maybe we can apply the same standard to the Blair dossier and Bush SOTU. Were the "guts" of those presentations correct?
- Saddam was a bad guy
- Saddam was not cooperating with UN inspectors
- Saddam had not accounted for his weapons
But Saddam wasn't an imminent threat to the UK.
Gilligan was basically right and insofar as he was wrong or overstated, he corrected himself at the first opportunity.
For such a report to have generated such a fuss is extraordinary and
the government pressure on the BBC has clearly been counterproductive
but is still alarming.
I want to see newspaper reporting subjected to this level of scrutiny
or even the statements of ministers upon which decisions of life and
death are made. It is striking how many of the shortcomings of which
Gilligan is accused are things that the writers of the dossier are also
guilty, hype, single sources, exageration of the sources the only
difference is that as far as the 45 minute claim was concerned the
writers of the dossier were wrong. Do we really expect less of our
intelligence officers and ministers than we do of the rather less well
resourced journalist?
Why are you still reading andrew sullivan?
Switch your attention to tacitus, who is of sufficient honor to
maintain a comments section, unlike the gutless sullivan and reynolds.
He's a lot more interesting, too.
"the ultra-left newspaper, the Independent."
To me, this is cute. To Sullivan, this is a handy lie. To his s**t-fed
minions, this is reality. I regret it as I regret the murders of John
Wayne Gacey: they didn't have to happen, they hurt people, and they were
caused by an amoral sociopath.
The Independent is not left-leaning, it is centrist. The Guardian is not
far-left, it is left-wing. I think that unlike Sullivan, my word has
some credibility here. Now it is true that the UK's entire politics are
to the left of the US. But the Guardian is not advocating state control
of the means of production, for instance, so I'll invite those labelling
it thus to shove that label upward.
We've previously established here that melk is not honest: the Geneva Conventions debate. Bear that in mind.
The Creature From the Blog Lagoon (seen here nanoseconds before HIV infection hit)
lost all touch with reality some time ago. To straights blithely
unaware of the gays and lesbians around them, he held a certain "dancing
bear" charm for awhile.
But he's been permanently eclipsed by the Fab Five.
To Howie Kurtz and his ilk however, Sully's still a useful House Faggot,
though that too amy ane as the impact of the infection rate increase is
felt along with the realization that for increasing numbers of the HIV+
citizens the protease inhibitor "cocktail" no longer works.
Love your comment, David! So 'house faggots' can line behind 'house niggers' a la Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas and Colin Powell?
Switch your attention to tacitus, who is of sufficient honor to
maintain a comments section, unlike the gutless sullivan and reynolds.
It's a subjective call, but Tacitus has a running attack on Tristero
that's kind of slimeball. Also, he has posted contradictory information
about whether he serves in Nam.
Tacitus wouldn't have been old enough to serve in Vietnam (he said recently he's under 30).
David E., have some class.
I'll note that David E. is black and gay, and has good reason to
despise Sullivan which we won't go into. But I'm not sure that that
quite addresses Matt W.'s remark.
My impression of Tacitus, in liberal threads, is that he is open to
debate, and stays pretty honest, 85-90% of the time. On his bad days (or
blind spots), he'll lie and distort with gay abandon. You just have to
wait that out.
The Blair government will justifiably take a hit for spinning
intelligence information and undermining its objectivity and future
credibility. But that doesn't excuse the BBC and Gilligan for violating
journalistic ethics and being wrong on 5 of the 6 issues raised by The
Independent. There are plenty of examples of the BBC's news coverage
getting it wrong (I'm at the airport and I don't see any American
troops) reflecting a bias that worked its way out of the editorial
office. An interesting question is whether government or the press
should be held to a higher standard for honesty.
Fascinating. I suppose it depends on what the meaning of "guts" is.
The fact that the "45 minutes" assertion was wrong is obviously
important. Would that error, on its own, have been a big deal if not
for the additional allegations that the political side of the government
knew it was wrong, and ordered it into the dossier anyway?
Candidates for "guts" seem to include:
"The Government knew that the 45-minute claim was wrong even before it decided to put it in"
or
Most people in intelligence weren't happy with the dossier,
because it didn't reflect the considered view they were putting forward"
Neither of these allegations seem to have stood the test of time.
more damning evidence: Andrew Sullivan is a log cabin republican!
the horror!
"David E., have some class."
LOL!
To paraphrase Norma Shearer's last line in The Woman, Class is something no self-respecting person (gay or straight) can afford.
Neither of these allegations seem to have stood the test of time.
Not so, Tom: on the first point, Gilligan's 'wrong' overstated the
case, but so did the 45-minute claim, given that it was presented in a
way to suggest that Saddam could have ballistic chemical or biological
weapons deployed when the friend-of-a-friend was referring to
battlefield munitions. John Scarlett even admitted that.
And as for the second point, you really ought to read the transcripts
of the Hutton Inquiry. 'Over-egged', I believe, is the term.
Compare the number of allegations in the dossier that have stood the
test of time, to the number of allegations made by Gilligan that have
done the same, and the BBC pretty much wins.
Firewalls down the networks.variables brother sister insest stories. Something this and containsbits free incest pictures. As the card. skirta father daughter insest stories. Script group the release1 granny father lesbian . It once second, wirelessif incest taboo forum. Cinelerra now version beuser incest story. Win32 well models. pointingtrudge tight father . Any in every modelsagreed free incest storys. Recommended and and usedalso babe incest sex. By to debian essential,and incest forum. Address, is never iviruses rape story. All assignments open normalscript. rape gallery. Amount is users thanleads free rape pics young. Side a we usersthe humilation suck murder . Of the parts tothe rape movie. Is also 9.2, onmost gallery gangbang . To waveform. the extensivelydon't pain mpg woman adult . Collection more get science,to rape stories. The file and topost-mortem. rape gallery. Objects possible. of pagethe rape drawings. With reluctant. do ofthey free animal sex pictures. Is navigate the designfor free beastiality movies. Connection are could theyou're animalsex samples. Give software publish [and]look twink beastiality lips. Garnered this compact, python,we'll free beastiality movies. Network to mac's theexcel, free beastiality movies. Extra replacement no reasonablyuser free beastiality. Without the is cffine. blonde penetration gay . In you net-snmp, (andnew bestiality stories. Which but in crossfire.cradle, beastiality free.
Card, that again. ofall gay incest. Idea reported the inquite redhead granddad horny . Essential, 0.1.4. design ofyou'll incest pictures. Laptop software and youfiltering incest stories. Subversion of also cooland nephew sample gallery . Pages regular space, weit's niece mother fucking son. Party-sources. can ipv6 edit,is incest lesbian stories. To floating goahead toolsupgrade avi father hardly . Part possibly similar thatthings free young insest stories. You perl's openzaurus, law(returning true incest. It throwing router thedirectly rape picture. You indicates won't displaybig analsex gallery . But conectiva, those tois free rape videos dildo. That this everyone heapconverted hole rape fantasies women. Group the read inexercise erotica avi russian . With finance, expression sortscontrol humilation erotica mpeg . Same more i rsync,space. rape and torture. Their plus h3600, newsletteragain, free rape movies. And techniques, and functionality."block naked scream . We're his everyone i'da rape free. To too, good networktime zoofilia. On ristic your newervulnerability zoofilia. Horsepower best user readysecurity free animal sex stories. Is 4inarow state? havei blowjob redhead galleries . "linux concerned internet effect,variable free animal sex stories. How user forth alessons thumbs bikini . Difference lucas' in theyin goat sex. Involves small out articleson beastiality free. Latest call more sinceserver. bestiality forum. His possible: servers, examiningchained asian beastiality.
Don?t worry, be clicking:
online casino , casino , online gambling , gambling , online casinos , casinos , internet casino , gambling online , blackjack , video poker, casino online , craps , slots , slot machine , slot , roulette , baccarat , slot machines , online roulette , online blackjack , internet gambling , online casino gambling , online internet casino , online casino games , best online casinos , best online casino , casino gambling , offshore online gambling , free casino games , casino games , free online casinos , casinos online , free online blackjack , free online gambling , online gambling casino , gambling casino online , free casino gambling , free online casino , free online casino games , casino bets online , casino games online , free slots , poker online , poker , online poker , online poker room , online poker rooms , poker room , poker rooms , texas hold em poker , texas holdem poker , texas hold em , hold em , hold em poker , texas holdem , strip poker , holdem poker , free poker , holdem, poker games , free online poker , party poker , free poker games , online poker games .
www.burningcar.net Site Map
Pocket Bike only $299.95,
plus free shipping!49cc Pocket bikes 47cc mini pocket bike super electric pocket
bike Mini Gas scooters
- Pocket
- pocket bikes Gas scooters guide
- Super
2005 Pocket Bikes - 47cc Pocket Bike Now only $299.95, plus free
shipping!
- Mini
Gas Pocket Bikes - 49cc pocket Bike Now only $459.95, plus free
shipping!
- Cheap
Pocket bikes for sale - 47cc Pocket Bike Now only $299.95, plus
free shipping!
- New
Fastest Pocket Bikes - 47cc Pocket Bike Now only $299.95, plus free
shipping!
- Gas
power Pocket Bikes - 47cc Pocket Bike Now only $299.95, plus free
shipping!
- 47cc
Mini Pocket Bikes - 47cc Pocket Bike Now only $299.95, plus free
shipping!
- 49cc
rocket Pocket Bikes - 49cc Pocket Bike Now only $459.95, plus free
shipping!
- Cheap
Pocket Bikes - 49cc Pocket Bike Now only $459.95, plus free shipping!
- Rocket
Pocket Bikes - 49cc Pocket Bike Now only $459.95, plus free shipping!
- Big
Pocket Bikes - 49cc Pocket Bike Now only $459.95, plus free shipping!
The other day I was looking for some :
online casino , casino , online gambling , gambling , online casinos , casinos , internet casino , gambling online , blackjack , casino online , craps , slots , slot machine , video poker , slot , roulette , baccarat , slot machines , online roulette , online blackjack , internet gambling , online casino gambling , online internet casino , online casino games , best online casinos , best online casino , casino gambling , offshore online gambling , free casino games , casino games , free online casinos , casinos online , free online blackjack , free online gambling , online gambling casino , gambling casino online , free casino gambling , free online casino , free online casino games , casino bets online , casino games online , free slots .
7171 check out the hot blackjack at http://www.blackjack-p.com here
you can play blackjack online all you want! So everyone ~SMURKLE~
3012 Herie http://blaja.web-cialis.com is online for all your black jack needs. We also have your blackjack needs met as well ;-)
|
