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July 03, 2003

ANOTHER LOVE NOTE FROM THE DLC....A few weeks ago the DLC's Al From and Bruce Reed lit off a little nuclear torch aimed at Howard Dean, pissing off all manner of Democrats and assorted liberals in the process. Today in the LA Times they repeat almost exactly what they said back then:

Every weekend, yet another special-interest group hosts a candidate forum to pressure the presidential candidates into praising its agenda. Some of the candidates seem intent on running applause-meter campaigns, measuring success by how many times they tell the party faithful what they want to hear.

....Ironically, party activists are out of line not only with their party's historic tradition but with their fellow Democrats. In 1996, a survey by the Washington Post compared the views of delegates to the Democratic convention with those of ordinary registered Democratic voters. They might as well have come from different parties. On every single social and economic issue, the views of the registered Democrats were closer to those of all registered voters than to those of Democratic delegates.

Almost two-thirds of Democratic delegates wanted to cut defense spending; most registered Democrats did not. A majority of Democratic delegates opposed a five-year time limit for welfare benefits; two-thirds of registered Democrats supported it. Democratic delegates were split on the death penalty; registered Democrats favored it by a margin of more than 2 to 1.

Now, candidates of either party making the rounds of interest groups during primary season is hardly cause for alarm, and considering the positions that most of the major Democratic candidates have taken, it's hard to see why the DLC is so concerned about a return to McGovern style liberalism. What's more, even those 1996 polling numbers they cite aren't really that scary: they show that Democratic delegates are somewhat more liberal than Democrats as a whole, but not wildly so. I imagine that exactly the same is true on the Republican side.

I don't mind that the DLC is pushing on the Democratic candidate to be tougher on foreign policy. That's a perfectly defensible position, and one that makes sense. But what I do mind is that they seem unable to write an op-ed with the goal of bringing both activists and the rank and file together. Instead, their piece is overtly dismissive, seemingly telling activists to just get out of the party and go vote for Nader. What's the point of that?

Republicans do a much better job of supporting their activists and making them feel wanted, but without letting them take over the party. Why can't the DLC do the same?

Posted by Kevin Drum at July 3, 2003 11:32 AM | TrackBack


Comments

I'm glad we have these corporate a** kissers running scared. It's time we took our country back!
Faux News doesn't run the world. Beltway pundits don't run the world. WE are the masters of our own destiny, and won't be marginalized by the Republican-lite elitists.

Posted by: Mike Brandt at July 3, 2003 11:42 AM | PERMALINK

Two points:

One, I'd argue that the activists have taken over the GOP.

Two, I'm not convinced the DLC aren't actually trying to deep-six the democratic party. I mean, hell, if all the liberal voters actually did piss off, we'd probably wind up with a GOP majority, Green minority, and a handful of Democrats in Congress wondering what happened.

Posted by: John Yuda at July 3, 2003 11:43 AM | PERMALINK

Those guys have their heads so far up their asses it's not even funny. They don't even know who's fighting for Dean. I DIDN'T VOTE in the 2000 election because I hated the candidates, all of them, so much. And now I'm volunteering for Dean. Frankly, he's able to force his followers to see past ideological difference and recognize some other potentially important factors: integrity, courage, consistency, etc. I don't agree with Dean on a laundry list of items, and most of my friends who follow him don't either. I'm sorry but the Democrats have just lost their f-in minds if they think Dean's appeal is his liberalism.

Posted by: Marc at July 3, 2003 11:53 AM | PERMALINK

Shouldn't somone break the news to the DLC that they are a special interst group that holds canidate forums?

Posted by: Rob at July 3, 2003 11:54 AM | PERMALINK

Whew, I was just about to note my shock that Democrats were willing to admit that Republicans hadn't been taken over by their activists, but John Yuda has saved me in only the second post.

So I'll just register much less shock that Kevin, one Democrat, is willing to admit that. :)

Posted by: Sebastian Holsclaw at July 3, 2003 11:55 AM | PERMALINK

Mmmm. Thought Al From was a conservative columnist? He's a Democrat? Whodathunkit.

Now they're aiming their suicideguns at their own. Lurvely. No wonder I can't stand Democrats.

Couldn't stomach the Tipper/Lieberman ticket last time round. Bill Clinton made me ill; though the concerted, 8-year-and-counting character assassination by Mellon Scaife, Bill Kristol, Ken Starr et al was nearly treasonous.

And the crop of losers they had running for the nomination were too busy COVERING THEIR ASS to actually stand for anything.

I trust Dean to be honest and make pragmatic decisions. Pragmatism over dogmatism. I don't care that I don't agree with him; but I TRUST him.

So, 'DLC', how can you answer for the 49%-or-so eligible Americans who DIDN'T vote in 2000, or the roughly 20% of registered Democrats who voted for the evil Republican farknut?

Izzit 'cause... YOUR IDEA OF AN ELECTABLE CANDIDATE SUCKS? Naw...

Posted by: squiddy at July 3, 2003 12:02 PM | PERMALINK

"Republicans do a much better job of supporting their activists and making them feel wanted, but without letting them take over the party."

Sorry, Kevin, but you're quite a ways off on this one. They HAVE taken over the party.

And Sebastian, if you really don't think the activists have a tremendous amount of pull in the GOP, please explain Grover Norquist.

Posted by: The Mighty Reason Man at July 3, 2003 12:02 PM | PERMALINK

The Mighty Reason Man needs to explain the 2002 elections.

Posted by: Registered Independent Joel at July 3, 2003 12:04 PM | PERMALINK

Nice how anything can morph into Republican bashing.

I'm in the party, I can see for myself that the activists have not taken over. I'm also assured that the activists have not taken over the Democratic party, even though to me (an outsider) it appears that they have. This conversation appeals to my notion that outsiders will focus on the extremists.

Posted by: Sebastian Holsclaw at July 3, 2003 12:09 PM | PERMALINK

Activists have a strong influence in both parties. On the Republican side, I'd say that the supply side (i.e., economic) activists *have* taken over the party, but that the social activists haven't.

And while the DLC's tone annoys me, I'd also warn everyone not to make the same mistake they're making and just dismiss them. Like it or not, the reality is that to win elections you have to appeal to moderates, and right now the moderates are feeling fairly conservative, especially on national security.

We liberals need to compromise with the moderates every bit as much as they need to get off their high horse and stop insulting the activists. Unless we do that, it's four more years of Bush.

Posted by: Kevin Drum at July 3, 2003 12:12 PM | PERMALINK

Jeez, after reading the DLC I'd have to assume that if Dean is the nominee, they'll endorse Bush (of course ignoring the fact that Dean is closer to the center than everyone but Lieberman).

Could it be more obvious that these guys are pissed because they wield far less clout than they did with Clinton in the White House, and if anyone but Lieberman is the nominee it will stay that way?

Deserving or not, I think many active democrats blame the DLC for the inexcusable showing in the mid-term election that was predicated on the exact same strategy they are promoting in today's piece: be Bush lite, don't russle feathers, sell yourselves out in return for more power. Because that's what's important, right? That members of the Democratic establishment gets back to their cushy power positions?

Dean is tapping into something the DLC can't even dream of: winning supporters through passion and the power of your convictions. It's as though From and Heard think Democrats should be seen and not heard. I'd love to see them take that advice rather than provide copy for the RNC a year from now.

And will they please acknowledge that their pandering to big business is just as much a play to "special interests" as appearing with Labor and women's groups?

Posted by: Mike D at July 3, 2003 12:15 PM | PERMALINK

Kevin Drum: So, we need someone... inoffensively bland, middle-of-the-road, vanilla...

... a Michael Dukakis?

Lurvely. See you in '08.

Thankyewverymuch, but no. I'll take someone who actually has ideas and is not afraid to express them. And won't squeal like a stuck pig when someone tries to label them a LIBRUL.

Here's a revolutionary thought: Judge people on their merits.

Posted by: squiddy at July 3, 2003 12:22 PM | PERMALINK

*smiles and pats Sebastian on the head*

That's nice, dear. Whatever it was you said back there. Now go outside and play with your toys.

Posted by: squiddy at July 3, 2003 12:26 PM | PERMALINK

I'd rather lose this election with a candidate I can support than win it with a sellout.

That said, I'd rather win it with a sellout than lose it with a sellout, so if by some stroke of luck he gets the nomination, I'm still going to vote for Lieberman before I emigrate to New Zealand.

Posted by: John Yuda at July 3, 2003 12:26 PM | PERMALINK

1. I agree with Kevin, to some extent: the tax cutting supply side has taken over the GOP, and the social activists haven't. With the (significant) exception of judicial nominees, when has Bush really gone to the wall for social conservative causes? And social conservatives will go ballistic if Bush offers up Al Gonzales for the Supreme Court. But economic conservatives are also still restive, increasingly so, over spending and trade. There are still factions, it's just that war and tax cuts have kept everyone on Bush's side.

2. I also agree that the DLC is being too harsh here and giving us conservatives free ammunition. But it's not true that GOP groups are immune from the temptation to start flame wars with the rank and file. It's worse with the Dems now, but remember 1992?

3. Sebastian, if you really don't think the activists have a tremendous amount of pull in the GOP, please explain Grover Norquist.

Norquist's a man of many causes, some of which he wins on and some he loses -- are you talking about his tax cut plans, his association with Arab-American groups, his campaign to name stuff after Reagan . . .

Posted by: Crank at July 3, 2003 12:31 PM | PERMALINK

Speaking of, it pisses me off every day when I ride past "Ronald Reagan National Airport" on the Metro.

Partially because they named it after him, and I don't think you should go naming things after people while they're still alive.

But mostly because Republicans in Congress forced Metro to spend millions of dollars replacing all the signs in the whole system to have the new name on them, instead of letting them replace the signs as they wore out and spending that money on more useful upgrades and maintainence.

Posted by: John Yuda at July 3, 2003 12:57 PM | PERMALINK

What really gets me about the DLC attacking Dean is that he really isn't a wild-eyed leftist. He's anti-gun-control, pro-death-penalty, pro-balanced-budget, anti-big-spending. If that's not moderate, then the term's meaningless.

Posted by: Mike Kozlowski at July 3, 2003 12:59 PM | PERMALINK

Mike: I agree. The DLC wants candidates who are tougher on national security. Fine. So why not write memos saying that Dean should be tougher on national security? Why dump on activists of all stripes, and why dump on Dean generally when his positions on other issues are not that far from Clinton's?

Posted by: Kevin Drum at July 3, 2003 01:04 PM | PERMALINK

I don't think it has much to do with Dean's positions on specific issues. It's easy to confuse the DLC and centrist Democrats, to get the impression that the DLC is the organization for centrist Democrats, and that the opinions of the DLC are the opinions of most centrist Democrats. That's how it's played out in the media. The truth is that it's a political club run by Al From and Bruce Reed- a political machine for centrist to moderately liberal Democrats (interesting how they don't attack Gephardt, who on nearly everything but the war is to the left of Dean). Dean has been attacking the Democrats in control of the party, accusing them of being incompetent. (He's right!) The real reason that From and Reed don't like Dean is because he won't kiss their rings. The party machine has failed, and the DLC represents that machine. Dean criticizing the machine is criticizing the DLC. To them, that isn't acceptable.

Posted by: Mitch at July 3, 2003 01:38 PM | PERMALINK

Hey everyone, wake up, Dean has an 'A' rating from the NRA, supports the death penalty, and makes these positions clear so they are not a secret to his supporters. This is not a leftist here, and every supporter knows this.

"Leftist" is not why people support Dean, and it isn't "party activists" by any means! I've seen Dean ask crowds how many people are involved in politics for the first time in their lives, and I've seen this asked at many Meetups, and ALWAYS at least half the audience raises their hands. (Leftist party activists support Kucinich, by the way, not Dean.)

People are happy to see a candidate who is willing to challenge Bush and the right, and THAT is what is driving the grassroots support for Dean. For example, when the Senate Democrats recently supported the $350 billion tax cut, claiming they were winning a "victory," Dean asked what the hell were they doing supporting another tax cut? (In fact that tax cut wipes out the ability to pay OUR Social Security when we retire.) THAT is why people support Dean, and that is why Washington Democrats are nervous.

To understand Dean's appeal, watch this speech.

Posted by: Dave Johnson at July 3, 2003 01:44 PM | PERMALINK

A few comments back, Kevin makes the very valid distinction between the two stripes of GOP extremists -- economic and social -- and correctly points out that the economic extremists HAVE taken over their party (hence my Grover Norquist bit above).

I would go a bit further and say that, while the social activists in the GOP aren't completely in control, they have a lot of regional control. Since the regions in question -- the south and the non-industrial midwest -- are the reason the GOP is in control of the country, I'd say that they have a disproportionate amount of influence, if not outright control of the whole party.

Joel- Maybe I would explain the 2002 midterms if I knew what your question was. Are you implying that the Dems lost because they are controlled by activists, or that the GOP won because they are NOT controlled by activists? Or is your question just a snide little remark with no real value? Help me out here.

Posted by: The Mighty Reason Man at July 3, 2003 01:51 PM | PERMALINK

interesting how they don't attack Gephardt, who on nearly everything but the war is to the left of Dean

Hey, be fair to Gephardt! The DLC attacked him too, in the same memo Kevin refers to at the start of his post. I'm not enthusiastic about DG, but it's not fair to tar him with the DLC brush.

Posted by: YT at July 3, 2003 02:05 PM | PERMALINK

The Social Activists of the Republican Party are constantly pandered to, BUT they never actually get what they want. The Republicans bend over backwards to pretend to make progress on their issues, but they rarely actually make it happen.

Specifically, Abortion. In MN the 2nd major reason given in exit polls for voting Republican was abortion. In MO it was the 3rd.

Leading Republicans are walking a thin line. they need to constantly act as though they're making progress on abortion, but if they ever succeed, the Democrats might have a serious wave reaction against them and a lot of Low-taxes Republicans might leave the party. I always get the impression that the Republican Party exists to give money and power to the Aristocracy (the upper, upper class) of America and works hard to convince their rank and file that they're working for them too.

Posted by: MDtoMN at July 3, 2003 02:12 PM | PERMALINK
I always get the impression that the Republican Party exists to give money and power to the Aristocracy (the upper, upper class) of America and works hard to convince their rank and file that they're working for them too.
Funny, but I think a lot of us do. Now, I wonder why we'd ever think that. Posted by: John Yuda at July 3, 2003 02:17 PM | PERMALINK

Explain to me again why we give a damn what Coulter-quoting zealots think about the Democratic party or it's candidates?

Posted by: squiddy at July 3, 2003 02:27 PM | PERMALINK

squiddy, you really think the DLC is "Coulter-quoting zealots"? I mean, I'm pretty damn conservative and Republican, and I take everything Coulter says with a pound of rock salt.

Posted by: Crank at July 3, 2003 03:01 PM | PERMALINK

I wasn't aimin' fer them.

Posted by: squiddy at July 3, 2003 03:17 PM | PERMALINK

Anybody read Richard Cohen's piece on Dean in the Post today?
There's a lot of sorting out to do between now and Nov.'04. My hunch is that when the primary dust settles it's gonna be Edwards.
To paraphrase one of the laws of physics, for every activist there's an equal and opposite
re-activist.
Right now we've got a Whitehouse full of right-wing whackos. What we don't need is to replace them with a Whitehouse full of left-wing loonies.

Posted by: Paul at July 3, 2003 03:24 PM | PERMALINK

Paul -

Dr. Dean is in no way a "left-wing loony."

We're not supporting him because he's this ultra-liberal: if we wanted that, Kucinich would be our man.

Posted by: John Yuda at July 3, 2003 03:27 PM | PERMALINK

"But what I do mind is that they [DLC] seem unable to write an op-ed with the goal of bringing both activists and the rank and file together. Instead, their piece is overtly dismissive, seemingly telling activists to just get out of the party and go vote for Nader. What's the point of that?"

Are you confusing the DLC with the DNC? The DLC represents a wing of the Democratic party, the one Dean calls the Republican wing of the Democractic party, the wing that wins national elections. Dean's frequent claim that he represents the Democratic wing of the Democratic party does not have the "goal of bringing both activists and the rank and file together", "is overtly dismissive, seemingly telling [rank and file] to just get out of the party and go vote for [Bush]".

Isn't this sort of jockeying for power that happens in primaries? The kumbaya part comes after the primaries.

Posted by: back40 at July 3, 2003 03:49 PM | PERMALINK

As a former member of the dlc, I can only think that they are running very scared. When you think of the dlc, think of them as their own 'special interest group'....that of more moderate, primarily southern Dems. It's true that more Liberal candidates in the past have caused major electoral headaches for more conservative Dems nationwide, but we are in a position now where people like Hillary Clinton and Tom Daschle were the midterm election GOP posterpeople for 'Liberal kooks'...and Hillary is a DLC member!

What the dlc is doing is self-defeating...pissing off the party 'activists'..people that are reliable sources of money, votes and muscle...under the theory that they'll choose the least of evils in presidential elections. It would be nice for their own interests to be able to dump the association of more Liberal members, but the Democrats are much heterogenous then the GOP. If you want majorities in Congress or to reach the WH, you need Democrats of ALL stripes...having only Liberals or Conservative Dems will not cut it.

I recognize their points, and I recognize they have their own agenda...but they've never been this shrill or ham handed. I won't renew my membership.

Posted by: jdw at July 3, 2003 03:57 PM | PERMALINK

By the way, doesn't it seem like the hatchet attacks on Dean by established whores (From, Biden, Russert) only make him more sympathetic and causes him to gain in popularity?

Keep 'em comin'.

Posted by: squiddy at July 3, 2003 05:18 PM | PERMALINK

"The Social Activists of the Republican Party are constantly pandered to, BUT they never actually get what they want."

I don't think that's entirely correct. The one issue you cite is abortion but that's something of a red herring since the Supreme Court has stated that abortion cannot be outlawed. Bush's judges certainly seem to be conservative and it's a sure bet that his next Supreme Court nominee will be in favor of overturning Roe v. Wade. At the national level, they've been trying for years to overturn "partial birth" abortion and at the state level, they've been passing various restrictions for years.

As for the rest of the agenda, well, Bill Frist has proposed a Constitutional amendment to prevent gay marriage and the Republican Party is firmly on record as opposing any and all gay civil rights issues. At both the state and national level, this has become increasingly apparent.

Then there's the faith-based funding initiative and the relaxing of federal rules regarding money going to religious institutions.

Regarding the separation of church and state, well, again, there's this little obstacle called the Supreme Court that's in the way. As above, though, give George a chance and I think that obstacle will be removed.

I'm at something of a loss to find anything they aren't getting.

Back to the subject at hand, I'd have to say that the Republican Party has certainly evolved over the past 30 years. I don't see how you can look at, e.g., a Gerald Ford Republican and a Tom DeLay Republican and not think that the activists have taken over the party. What happened to the Republican Party that was the party of fiscal responsibility?

Posted by: PaulB at July 4, 2003 07:02 AM | PERMALINK

Dean is pretty moderate on almost every issue. The "he's too liberal" noise is a smear campaign. It's disheartening that it started from the DLC and has been picked up by several people here. Use of "liberal" as a smear word will always work against the Democrats, and Democrats who play that game are losers or saboteurs.

As a liberal myself, I can tell you is one and who isn't. I am agreed that the Dems should nominate moderates, but Dems should not participate in the anti-liberal smearing process.

Just recently I debated a couple of DLC types here. Since then I've found that Dean's performance on Russert wasn't that bad. but the right-wing party-line was that he's been a disaster, and the DLC'ers passed it on. One of them even said "It doesn't make any difference if Dean is a liberal or not, he's thought to be a liberal". What a loser thing to say. Sometimes we have to work to change people's minds. We can't just play to their misconceptions.

I also mentioned that no one could ever be quite moderate enough for the DLC, and that the target was sliding right. That didn';t bother him/ her either. "That's their job, moving the Dems right". Well, the job has been done.


Holsclaw shows up again with his wise though predictable comments. Democrats should take their adversaries' offers of wise advice with a few grains of salt.

Especially when they seem like partially-successful experiments in AI. Artificial stupidity was been attained long ago, and trolls should be vigilant to make sure that they pass the Turing test.

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Posted by: debt consolidation bad credit at July 30, 2004 06:02 PM | PERMALINK
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