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April 29, 2003

RUMMAGING....The Telegraph has been rummaging around burned out Iraqi ministry buildings and come up with evidence that MP George Galloway accepted millions of dollars from Saddam Hussein. A few days later, after more rummaging, they came across evidence that Saddam had connections with al-Qaeda.

The London Times, meanwhile, has been doing its own rummaging and discovered evidence that France had been giving Saddam regular reports on its dealings with America.

This is all very interesting, but I have a couple of questions:

  • What are these guys doing rummaging around Iraqi ministries? Shouldn't the coalition forces be carefully scouring those buildings themselves?

  • And even if rummaging is permitted, where's the American press? Three big scoops for conservative British newspapers, but the Americans, with many more reporters on the ground, haven't come up with anything. What's the deal with that?

Am I the only one who thinks there's more here than meets the eye?

UPDATE: In comments, Brad Johnson points to this Guardian article indicating that British intelligence doesn't think there's much to these stories.

Posted by Kevin Drum at April 29, 2003 03:43 PM | TrackBack


Comments

Wondered about those stories m'self, and why they are not being reported here.

They could be true, but they could be just baloney like all the wmd stories so far, to influence a public that doesn't pay that much attention.

Posted by: tristero at April 29, 2003 03:54 PM | PERMALINK

You're probably not hearing too much about these 'scoops' because Western intelligence agencies regard at least the latter two as old, irrelevant, non-news. (Eg. yesterday's Guardian).

Posted by: Brad at April 29, 2003 04:42 PM | PERMALINK

No, you are not the only one.

Posted by: The Mighty Reason Man at April 29, 2003 04:46 PM | PERMALINK

In regard to how they do it, from the articles I've read the US military is apparently instructed to be cooperative. I've read a variety of articles where reporters went to some location wanting to snoop around. The story is generally the same, the troops say OK, but don't walk away with anything. Based on the reporters' stories, they frequently ignor this last part. In some instances, the troops aren't even aware of what they're guarding. One story on the BBC talked about an infamous prison where the troops were searching for booby traps. The troops made the reporters wait until the search was completed. At which time, the reporter felt obligated to tell the troops what the place was.

Posted by: MyNameIsFred at April 29, 2003 04:54 PM | PERMALINK

It's not totally restricted to conservative British papers. There's the Christian Science Monitor scoop, and the Saddam/Al Qaeda discovery was actually made by the (somewhat left-leaning) Toronto Star (the Telegraph reporter was apparently tagging along with the Star correspondents at the time).

Posted by: Mike at April 29, 2003 05:00 PM | PERMALINK

Maybe I'm being silly, but given the nature of newspaper competition in the U.K., doesn't the Guardian story "our competitors finds are fake" raise your skepticism hackles a little?

Posted by: Alex Knapp at April 29, 2003 08:33 PM | PERMALINK

American reporters have been told at journalism school that it's bad to wander round nicking things, while British reporters do it more or less by instinct.

Posted by: dsquared at April 30, 2003 01:29 AM | PERMALINK

That could explain why it's been such a boon for the conservative papers (recall the FOX News reporter who looted paintings).

Posted by: mark at April 30, 2003 04:03 AM | PERMALINK

Alex, your skepticism is not inappropriate, it's just misdirected. Anyone who's lived in the UK for long is very familiar with the notoriously and almost constantly misleading UK newspaper headlines -- especially but not exclusively in the tabloids -- in which a screaming, dramatic headline bears virtually no relation to what's in the article.

In the last decade or two, that kind of thing has often extended to ideologically-driven stories themselves being written around very little evidence, taken sharply out of proportion. The same phenomenon has built here in the US over the past decade.

The answer is to start by looking at the evidence these stories proffer and making a judgment from there. The fact is that, regardless of the Guardian's possible motivation, the British intelligence sources they quoted gave reasonable context to explain why these "finds" were not a big deal, except to people and newspapers who had no sense of context and had the motivation to blow them out of proportion. This also provides a convincing explanation for why neither the British nor the US governments are making much out of these "finds" -- their supposed significance doesn't really stand up to informed and contextual scrutiny.

Looking at motivation first simply gets you to the answer towards which you were inclined to begin with.

(This is neither here nor there with regard to the question of possible Iraqi payment to British MP George Galloway. It's awfully hard to generalize honestly about broad or continuing Iraqi government policy re al Qaeda or WMD from a handful of minor documents, whereas that doesn't necessarily hold for the doings of a single individual. Galloway's libel case against the Telegraph should be an interesting forum to find out.)

Posted by: Steady Eddie at April 30, 2003 07:18 AM | PERMALINK

The British reporters, unlike American ones, are entirely comfortable picking up some document and handing it to a local and saying, "Translate this for me." Furthermore, the British journalist feels as though he or she can go ahead and file a story based on that off-the-cuff translation. No American journalist would want to face the wrath of their editor if they tried to pull that.

Posted by: Martial at April 30, 2003 03:01 PM | PERMALINK

The unnamed sources from the Guardian article do not dispute the authenticity of the documents nor their translation. They only downplay their significance.

Regarding the Inigo Gilmore documents, I believe that they were not only translated by his Arabic-speaker co-worker on site, those translations were verified by people in London at the Telegraph and by the British government.

Posted by: Lonewacko at April 30, 2003 03:10 PM | PERMALINK

HEY! I broke this story on the 26th. Get on it Kevin! Hahaha.

According to the Daily Telegraph, the reporter who "found" the documents linking Iraq and Al-Qu'eda sweet talked his way past the American Guards and the reporter who "found" the documents linking Iraq and George Galloway went in with the looters

And in response to Mike's post:

The Telegraph did "find" the documents, but since both papers are owned by Conrad Black, I guess they both get to say "we found 'em." The Telegraph story came out a day before the Star article though, as well as Inigo Gilmore's description in the DT of how he found them (linked above.)

The CSM story is new to me though, thanks for pointing it out.

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Programy komputerowe antywirusowe, systemy operacyjne Windows, programy
komputerowe Office i inne.

http://www.komputer.pop.pl/drukarki_laserowe.htm

- Drukarki laserowe - Komputerowy sklep internetowy - drukarki laserowe,
drukarki atramentowe, drukarki ig?owe, drukarki termiczne. Tanie drukarki
laserowe z dostaw? do domu lub biura. Komputery, notebooki, laptopy, monitory,
drukarki laserowe, programy komputerowe. Drukarki laserowe Samsung, drukarki
laserowe Lexmark, drukarki laserowe HP. Tanie drukarki laserowe Dymo, drukarki
laserowe Canon, drukarki laserowe Epson, drukarki laserowe Minolta, drukarki
laserowe Xerox, drukarki Brother, drukarki laserowe Konika, drukarki laserowe
OKI oraz wiele innych.

http://www.komputer.pop.pl/drukarki_termiczne.htm

- Drukarki termiczne - Komputerowy sklep internetowy - drukarki
termiczne,laserowe, drukarki atramentowe, drukarki ig?owe, drukarki termiczne.
Tanie drukarki termiczne z dostaw? do domu lub biura. Komputery, notebooki,
laptopy, monitory, drukarki termiczne, programy komputerowe. Drukarki termiczne
OKI.

http://www.komputer.pop.pl/drukarki_atramentowe.htm

- Drukarki atramentowe - Komputerowy sklep internetowy - drukarki atramentowe,
drukarki atramentowe, drukarki ig?owe, drukarki termiczne. Tanie drukarki
atramentowe z dostaw? do domu lub biura. Komputery, notebooki, laptopy,
monitory, drukarki atramentowe, programy komputerowe. Drukarki atramentowe
Samsung, drukarki atramentowe Lexmark, drukarki atramentowe HP. Tanie drukarki
atramentowe Dymo, drukarki atramentowe Canon, drukarki atramentowe Epson,
drukarki atramentowe Minolta, drukarki atramentowe Xerox, drukarki Brother,
drukarki atramentowe Konika, drukarki atramentowe OKI oraz wiele innych.

http://www.komputer.pop.pl/drukarki_iglowe.htm

- Drukarki ig?owe - Komputerowy sklep internetowy - drukarki ig?owe, drukarki
atramentowe, drukarki ig?owe, drukarki termiczne. Tanie drukarki ig?owe z
dostaw? do domu lub biura. Komputery, notebooki, laptopy, monitory, drukarki
ig?owe, programy komputerowe. Drukarki ig?owe Samsung, drukarki ig?owe Lexmark,
drukarki ig?owe HP. Tanie drukarki ig?owe Dymo, drukarki ig?owe Canon, drukarki
ig?owe Epson, drukarki ig?owe Minolta, drukarki ig?owe Xerox, drukarki Brother,
drukarki ig?owe Konika, drukarki ig?owe OKI oraz wiele innych.

http://www.e-komputer.pl/

- sklep internetowy, sklep komputerowy. Jedyny komputerowy sklep internetowy z
mo?liwo?ci? sprawdzenia ceny i dost?pno?ci towaru on-line. Dostawa w ci?gu 24h.
P?atno?? przy dostawie, raty lub leasing. Ponad 9000 produkt?w dost?pnych "od
r?ki". Zapraszamy do strefy niskich cen! Komputerowy sklep internetowy:
notebooki, laptopy, monitory, drukarki, programy komputerowe.

http://www.e-komputer.pl/links/notebooki.html

- Notebooki - Komputerowy sklep internetowy - tanie notebooki. Notebooki z
dostaw? do domu lub biura. Notebooki - najwi?kszy wyb?r, najni?sze ceny.
Komputerowy sklep internetowy: komputery, notebooki, laptopy, monitory. Tanie
notebooki, laptopy. Sklep internetowy, komputerowy: notebooki, monitory,
drukarki, programy komputerowe.

http://www.e-komputer.pl/links/laptopy.html

- Laptopy - sklep internetowy, Notebooki, laptopy, monitory, drukarki, programy
komputerowe. Laptopy z dostaw? do domu lub biura. Laptopy - hurtowe ceny w
detalu. Tanie laptopy, notebooki, monitory, drukarki, programy komputerowe.
Laptopy HP, laptopy IBM, laptopy Maxdata, laptopy Acer, laptopy FSC oraz wielu
innych firm. Najwi?kszy wyb?r, najni?sze ceny.

http://www.e-komputer.pl/links/monitory-lcd.html

- Monitory - Komputerowy sklep internetowy - monitory LCD, monitory crt.
Monitory od 14 do 22". Komputery, notebooki, laptopy, monitory, drukarki,
programy komputerowe. Tanie monitory z dostaw? do biura lub do domu. Komputerowy
sklep internetowy: komputery, notebooki, laptopy, monitory, monitory lcd,
monitory crt, monitory hp, monitory innych frm.


Monitory Acer, monitory LCD Belinea, monitory Maxdata, monitory IBM, monitory
LCD LG, monitory Lite On, monitory NEC, monitory Philips, monitory LCD Samsung,
monitory Sharp, monitory Sony, monitory Xelo I wiele innych.


http://www.e-komputer.pl/links/komputery.html

- komputery - komputerowy sklep internetowy. Komputery stacjonarne, komputery
przeno?ne, komputery kieszonkowe. Komputery do domu i do biura. Tylko nowe
komputery. Komputery HP, komputery IBM, komputery Acer, komputery IBM, komputery
Maxdata, komputery Compaq, komputeryFSC.

http://www.e-komputer.pl/links/drukarki.html

- Drukarki - Komputerowy sklep internetowy - drukarki laserowe, drukarki
atramentowe, drukarki ig?owe, drukarki termiczne. Tanie drukarki z dostaw? do
domu lub biura. Komputery, notebooki, laptopy, monitory, drukarki, programy
komputerowe. Drukarki Samsung, drukarki Lexmark, drukarki HP. Tanie drukarki
Dymo, drukarki Canon, drukarki Epson, drukarki Minolta, drukarki Xerox, drukarki
Brother, drukarki Konika, drukarki OKI oraz wiele innych.

http://www.e-komputer.pl/links/oprogramowanie.html

- Oprogramowanie Microsoft, oprogramowanie Corel, oprogramowanie Adobe,
oprogramowanie Cisco, oprogramowanie Cad, oprogramowanie Autodesk,
oprogramowanie Macromedia, oprogramowanie APC, oprogramowanie Symantec,
oprogramowanie McAfee. Oprogramowanie antywirusowe, systemy operacyjne Windows,
oprogramowanie Office i inne.

http://www.e-komputer.pl/links/aparaty-cyfrowe.html

- fotograficzne aparaty cyfrowe ? sklep internetowy ?

tanie aparaty cyfrowe: aparaty cyfrowe Sony, aparaty
cyfrowe Nikon, aparaty cyfrowe Olympus, aparaty cyfrowe Sony oraz aparaty
cyfrowe innych firm.

http://www.pedagogium.edu.pl/


Pedagogium - szko?a wy?sza - pedagogika resocjalizacja.
Pedagogika specjalna. Studia dzienne, studia zaoczne, studia podyplomowe. Wy?sza
uczelnia zawodowa - licencjat. Szkola wyzsza - Warszawa -

http://www.pedagogium.pop.pl/

,
http://autonagaz.wizytowka.pl/

- Mobicom - samochodowe instalacje gazowe - Auto Na Gaz - monta? samochodowych
instalacji gazowych,

http://autogaz.wizytowka.pl/

- autonagaz, auto na gaz, tanie instalacje LPG -

http://montazsamochodowychinstalacjigazowych.wizytowka.pl/

- monta? samochodowych instalacji gazowych Warszawa - Opacz, Warszawa - Wa?
Miedzeszy?ski 379

http://auto.gaz.wizytowka.pl/

- auto gaz - samochodowe instalacje gazowe LPG


Posted by: eKomputer.pl at August 15, 2004 10:51 AM | PERMALINK
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